Is Olmert long for his office ?  Maybe Bibi Netanyahu is available. 

update , ok now here is an article on the subject

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1843523,00.html

update again, another article 

   http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1154525859887&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Sigh. I still miss Sharon and am willing to say it.

Here's a story from yesterday's Lebanese Cabinet meeting where some interesting conflicts were exposed. Anybody have real high hopes for the Hezbollah disarming trick?

Susan

PJM in LA, Seattle

August 13, 2006
Categories: Blog Breaking; HotHotHot; Sticky

PJM Exclusive - 'If You Are Men:' Threats and Bluffs Inside the Lebanon Cabinet

A Pajamas Media Exclusive (this information comes via Tom Harb of the World Lebanese Cultural Union. A podcast with Mr. Harb - INSIDE THE LEBANESE CABINET - amplifying the below, is now HERE.)

Mohammad Fneish (L) & Gen. Michel Sleiman

Dateline: Beirut
Via email from a Pajamas Media source within the Lebanese government:

Yesterday at the Lebanese Council of Ministers’ meeting the following positions were taken:

* Mohammad Fneish (Minister of Energy, and one of two Hezbollah in the cabinet): The position of Hezbollah is NOT TO DISARM in any part of the country until the Shebaa farms are liberated.

*Fneish then challenged both the Government and Lebanese Army to search and destroy Hezbollah’s weapons by force — ‘If you are men!’

* Michel Sleiman (General of Lebanese Army) stated that the Lebanese Army will not deploy one soldier until Hezbollah agrees to the whole political and deployment schedule.

* Sanioura (Prime Minister of Lebanon) called Berri (Hezbollah representative) who assured him that the position regarding unity has not changed. This prompted the “Unanimity with Reservations” scenario.

The cabinet then gave themselves 24 hours. They were hoping that the Israeli Cabinet would oppose UN Resolution 1701. Then they would blame it on the Israelis. But when the Israeli Cabinet agreed they decided to postpone today’s emergency cabinet meeting to avoid further internal clashes.

In sum, as Lebanese we are looking and and suffering under a disgusting match of empty rhetoric bathed in lies and hypocrisies. God Help us for these leaders and politicians.

The media here remains totally and utterly biased. None here gives any opportunity to convey the true feelings and aspirations of our people.

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

So much for the "political" wing of Hezbolla. That is simply obscene and, yes evil. Hezbolla has the rest of Lebanon, at least the gov't and Army, treed.   2 cabinet members and yet it is obvious Lebanon is hostage to at best or willingly compliant with Hezbolla. If you had any doubts. Bring in the Lebaneese Army huh? That is ugly. As if that tiny Shebba Farms would make a difference. Go back to hell Hezbollah.

Another article about the biasness of MSM - this time CNN.  

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3291328,00.html

Jordan .

Remember whenever Yassir Arafat or even the heads of various American Muslim organizations address the issue of innocent civilians they repeat the tired mantra:

We deplore the taking of innocent live whether it be Palestinian (or whatever other Muslim) or Eez-{{{rah}}}-ay-lee civilians.

This is just a convenient turn of phrase to lump all violent deaths together. Should you die while supping on a cappucino at a Tel Aviv sidewalk cafe as a bomb-encrusted suicide bomber self-implodes or should you die in a bombing raid while living in a house from whence rockets are indiscriminately fired off toward "Israel" (as Nasrallah refers to the Zionist Entity on occasion) it's pretty much the same thing.  And Yassir etal would "deplore" such a thing if civilians were victimized.

But the fact that every Israeli "civilian" will eventually serve in the military, is serving in the military or has served in the military -- guess what? T'ain't no Israeli civilians!

Seems that CNN, amongst other news outfits, have bought into that logic.

Here's a front page from our leftist Spanish friends in Barcelona. No me gusta though I'm certain they meant it with the utmost respect. It reads:

TOLERANCE: A NEGRO AND A JEW DECIDE THE DESTINY OF HUMANITY

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Okay, that newspaper page did nothing for you?  Here's one from yesterday's LA Times -- full page too.  It was pretty surprising to see.  I actually pulled it out and saved it for posterity, so rare an expression it seemed.  It's a little namby pampy in its condemnation but hey, it's a start and all of Tinsel Town seems to be chatting about it -- who's on and who's not.

Susan

Names Across A Newspaper Page: Hollywood Finally Speaks Out Against Terrorist Violence

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

I'd be interested to see -- perhaps in the form of links to articles at the two websites you mention -- the examples of Israel-bashing and Hezbollah-backing that have upset you.

Jordan .

First the Kos/Underground posts amazed me -they did not upset me.

They were virulent and all over the place ... a month ago. Maybe later I'll have time for a research project, just what I need- "a fun filled day"says Jordan.    The subject of those posts was a big well covered story - common knowledge .

Yesterday Jimmie Carter bashed Isreal for bombing and going into Lebanon like the anti 'Zionist' Kos kids.

They upset me.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Aww, Susan, you were upset by what those folks said ?

Man, this thread is the biggest we have had on this forum !

Yes, that was an upsetting series of posts on Daily Kos and their smaller cousins in blatherspace, Raymond. Yes, it's upsetting to look around me when fellow American citizens cannot see what seems so clear to me and echo the sentiments I've been reading from the Worldwide Mufti Community. FEH! I do not like what it augurs.

But hey, let's return to the new peacetime Lebanon, where the LA Times assures us on their front page that Hezbollah is now (big headline) "TRADING GUNS FOR BULLDOZERS." 11 year old Ali Tibi is shown with a fresh batch of yellow (such a dainty color!) Hezbo flags to plant around the ruins of Qana, site of the "Qana Massacre" where Israelis murdered 61 or 58 or 56 or 29 or 28 mostly civilians women and children mere days before.

Hezbollah, who generally do the directing of all video that comes out of Lebanon, set up a dandy little bit of footage so laughable in its contrived obviousness, you'd think ONE reporter might have objected. To what? To the footage of money being taken from a wallet (!) and handed over to a victim. What kind of money? Crisp money. What denomination? Why, they're hundred DOLLAR bills. US HUNDRED DOLLAR BILLS. Haha. The irony of it all, chuckled each Hezbo Hassan on the set, that after AMERICAN planes dropped AMERICAN bombs on innocent civilians in Lebanon, the true saviors of Lebanon were there with AMERICAN money to help rebuild. Hahaha.

But what if the money is counterfeit? If it were only to be manipulated as cynically as a dead child in a Hezbo-propaganda piece, it will most likely be set aside and retrieved from the central prop house/morgue at a later date.  As needed.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

But the UN is troubled by Israel's incursion back into Lebanon.

The Lebanese Foreign Minister I watched on Meet the Press this morning said that they would do NOTHING to prevent arms coming from Syria and/or Iran to Hezbollah UNTIL all the other steps of the UN resolution were in place.  At which time, Hezbollah and their partners in arms, the Lebanese Army, will be massively rearmed leaving Israel with twice the number of anti-Israelis on its northern borders.  And some French guys.   

 Could this little news item have anything to do with Israel's desire to go back into Lebanon?

Susan 

DEBKAfile Reports:

Turkey forces one Syrian, 5 Iranian arms planes to land at Diyarbakir military base

August 20, 2006, 11:47 AM (GMT+02:00)

Six Iranian ILDT type 4-cargo planes and a Syrian aircraft were forced to land at the southeast Turkish military airport last Thursday after US spy satellites spotted they were loaded with missiles, missile launchers and eight boxes of Chinese made C-802 missiles, dubbed by Iran “Nur.” DEBKAfile’s military sources disclose: The flights were bound for Damascus and Syrian military air bases just across the Turkish border. The C-802 is the advanced ground-ship missile which crippled the Israeli Navy’s gunship off Beirut, and killed three of its crew on July 14, two days after the outbreak of the Lebanon war. Searches by the Turkish authorities disclosed that one of the planes was carrying crates of Fajer rockets which Hizballah fired at Israeli towns. Two of the Iranian cargo planes have not been permitted to take off from Turkey unless they fly back to Iran. Four flights, carrying light ammunition including anti-tank weapons, were allowed to complete their journey to Syria after their pilots presented documents proving they were purchased in Iran for the Syrian army.

DEBKAfile adds: This is the first time American military satellites have been openly revealed to have aided in the UN embargo against arms transfers from Syria and Iran to the Hizballah. DEBKAfile’s military sources also disclose that the Iranian and Syrian cargo flights were bound for three Syrian military airfields, two of which were transferred at the end of July to the control and supervision of the air wing of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards. The flight carrying the C-802 missile was destined for the military section of Damascus’ Mezze international airport. The launchers and Fajer rockets would have been unloaded at Syria’s Nasiriya air base, 40 km from the Lebanese border. The anti-tank rockets and ammunition were bound for al Qusayr, north of Damascus and only 25 km from Lebanon’s northern Beqaa Valley.

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

No, please, stop with all the links. I find it overwhelming.

Honestly, I can't take any more links to Israel-bashing, Hezbollah-backing articles at those sites you mentioned.  Have a heart, slow down, already!

I started to do your work for you, Jamie, but decided you could easily do it yourself.  To make it simple, just go to Daily Kos and search "Hezbollah" or "Israel" for the past month.  There should be plenty to keep you busy at that one website alone.  And that website is the most frequented of the left leaning reportedly with 600,000 unique hits a day, I believe. 

What was interesting over the month long (so far) war between Hezbollah and Israel, is the degree to which the previously united against Bush/Republicans left split over Israel.  You'll find a lot of squabbling and restating of the parallel histories of the Middle East should you choose to subject yourself to the horror, the horror, the horror.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

But my entire point is that I can't.  I'll admit I didn't spend hours at the task, and they aren't my regular stomping grounds, but I couldn't find articles at either of the websites that were under discussion - DailyKOS or Democratic Underground - that would qualify as 'Israel-bashing" and/or "Hezbollah-backing".  If they're there, I'd certainly be interested to see them, so I'd have a better idea of which players on the left are wingnuts/halfwits.

To be honest, when a discussion turns to how viciously offensive the articles recently encountered at a political-opinion website were, but a contemporaneous request for links to any of those recent and offensive articles can't be met within two weeks, I begin to wonder, respectfully, if the original conversants weren't engaging in some hyperbole..

This is so not fun for me but here are a handful.  If you like, I will start cataloguing them but I still think it's quite easy to find examples.

Susan 

The attempt to bring Hamas and Hezbollah...(5+ / 0-)
...into the "war on Terrorism" is clearly an Israeli PR ploy, part of the propaganda machine that wants Americans (European and Arab countries are not being targeted) to believe that Israel is the victim of "terror" and not the victim of its own brutal military occupation of the Palestinian people.

And this..

The spoils is gas and oil. But unless we take seriously Bush-Jesus imperialism, the only religious angle one can refer to here is biblical Zionism, the desire to appease the religious nuts on the West Bank and annex it into Israel, as Greater Israel. I fear that Menachem Begin's words still ring true for many Israelis, that "the land of Israel belongs to the people of Israel, all of it forever." Begin, head of the Irgun at the time, is alleged to have said this in response to the UN Partition in 1948. Later, as leader of Likud, he referred to the West Bank as Judea and Sumaria, code words for the Greater Israel dream. I can't help but believe that Likud ideas flavor Kadima's notions of peace.

and this...

U.S. - Israeli realtionship (2+ / 1-)
I guess Mr Soros must be talking about the strong realtionship the politicians, neocons, "christian" fundamentalists, bureaucrats and Bushies, all on the Israeli payroll, have with Israel.

...this...

Hezbollah was born as a defensive force against Israel, and provide educational, medical, and social services to their people, somewhat like Hamas, as well as political legitimacy.
So what is not an unintended consequence here?
Sharon, when he dies, will undoubtedly be lauded as a great Israeli hero. But the truth is that he has done more harm to Israel than any leader in recent memory.
Americans with any "intelligence" are disgusted by it.

...this dialogue re/Hezbollah's bombing of Jews in Argentina in mid-90s...

Well, Hezbollah also likes to kill Jews (0 / 0)
in Latin America.  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...

Baseless accusation (2+ / 0-)
There is no evidence that Hizballah was responsible.
Why must you constantly lie and distort?

In the war Hezbollah killed 39 Israeli civilians (1+ / 0-)
That's terrorism. Israel killed 743 Lebanese civilians, by the most conservative and reliable estimate. That's terrorism.

Hezbollah does terrorism (1+ / 0-)
...just like (pretty much) all the other major actors in the Middle East. That's just the way it is. It does many things, many of them good, many of them neutral, and many of them criminal. Like Israel and so on.

Surely it takes more than one death over 24 years to classify Hizballah as a terrorist group.

You forgot about the rockets (0 / 0)
launched into Israel that killed 39 civilians.

That was post war... (0 / 0)
... a war that Israel killed approx 1,000 civilians.  What had Hizballah done befe the latest bloody Israeli massacre, other than kill one civilian in Israel over 24 years?

Because Hezbollah likes the people they (2+ / 0-)
...help.  Can't say the same of the Rethugs.
They only like themselves.

Would you want a country like Israel on your border with over 200 nuclear weapons aimed at you? Hezbollah may have the ability to start a conventional war, but Israel has the ability to bring about armageddon.

hezbollah wore uniforms (3+ / 0-)
...and repeatedly defeated the IDF in open fighting, from all accounts.
it's a hell of a lot easier to bomb undefended urban areas and civilian targets and refugee convoyes, though.
so if you can't even invade your neighbor or defeat an armed militia, at least you can kill a bunch of unarmed civilians to make yourself look tough.
Instead the fucking racists in Olmert's administration (Ramon comes to mind) had to get their hard-ons off on killing Lebanese civilians. Instead, they just got their fucking heads handed to them on a platter.
But you apologist come along here on a Democratic site and spout fucking Bushite apologist propaganda for a war that was failed from its very conception.

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Ah, this is my mistake. I assumed we were talking about articles at those websites, not reader comments. If we're talking about reader comments, I'm out of things to say, because reader comments on political websites like those are worthless -- 90% of the time they aren't representative of anything other than whatever half-formed, misspelled nonsense anyone who goes there looking for a fight and/or attention chooses to type. It wouldn't occur to me to be offended by them, as it wouldn't occur to me to consider them to be a legitimate attempt at discourse. It's the same reason (I realized some time ago, but much later than I should have) that it's pointless to debate Ann Coulter's public wish that the 9/11 terrorists had blown up the New York Times building -- it's just to stupid to take seriously as a topic of debate. I certainly won't suggest that there isn't all sorts of vile stuff that gets written on those sites that offer "discussion forums"; some of it just trolling, but some of it comes from real, sincerely hateful people.

My argument should have been: why are you presenting those posts as being representative of the American liberalism/Democratic ideology that is actually in play in the real mainstream debate? If I want to argue that a conservative view of an issue is incorrect or inappropriate, I don't pick extreme, exceptional examples to shadow-box with, since the conservative people I'm arguing with won't see their own views reflected in the statements I've chosen to represent them, and the attempt at conversation will become worthless. (I don't think I have to go into a full digression about the value of giving the opponent's argument the best reasonable framing and intent, as a fundamental rule of debate. Besides, I didn't give Rumsfeld that benefit of the doubt...)

I mean, it's fine to skim through those things from time to time to frighten yourself over the state of humanity, but Raymond's right, one only hurts oneself by taking them seriously. The occasional gem one finds isn't worth the digging, in my sad experience...

I'm too lazy tonight to backtrack and find out exactly how this all got started. I know Raymond cited the Daily Kos as one example of anti-Israeli rhetoric. Articles? I don't know about the difference on these so called blogs, Jamie. One person calls what they write a "diary" another writes comments. If I'm not mistaken any clown can write one of these diaries. They are no more or less meaningful than the comments.  I fluctuate in my impressions as to how influential these popular blogs are.  Sometimes I think they are but they also have many echo chambers within show biz.  Other times I think they are a loud vocal angry group venting in their insular amen corners.  

Yes, yes, yes, there is a definite anti-Israel slant on the part of most of the left. The further left you go, generally speaking, so goes your distaste for Israel. I first noticed this -- and was shocked and saddened -- on the UCLA campus. The stop signs would be graffitied with "Israel" under the "STOP." There were other stop signs that read "the execution of Mumia." I also recall that it was through reading the Daily Bruin UCLA paper that I learned how Communist/Socialist/Far Left trumped Judaism in the case of Michael "Happy Communist" Schwartz, a student journalist at the time my son was at UCLA. He was virulently anti-Israel, a great champion of the Little Guy, the oppressed, the working classes.

I mean, volumes have been written on the subject with numerous citations which you can choose to ignore or deny or minimize. It took me by surprise, as during my days as a leftist virtually all were sympathetic to Israel.  But then Israel became more successful, more prosperous, and after a long Labour history, went Likud.  Talk about volumes having been written...

No, the political scene in the US is NOT anti-Israel. That is the national scene. They are surprisingly in synch and PRO-Israel in both the House and Senate with the exception being certain members of the Black Congressional Congress like the late Cynthia McKinney. (Just voted out of the House) This is good.

I understand your point about not selective highlighting of the most extreme examples to prove a point. I don't think that is the case here. I wish that it were. I watched with interest the discussion on one Democratic website -- one backing a candidate who ran in the 2004 election for the Dem nomination. There was ONE (count 'em!) lone supporter of Israel through the days of war coverage. She was so careful to be gentle as to not alienate her Bush-hating compatriots. After all, they'll always have that in common even if they went their separate ways over Israel. She tried valiantly and I was glad to see her even though she was attacked from all sides.

Maybe there's a difference in degree. To me the differences between finding yourself in closer agreement with Israel over Hezbollah is no contest. When I read any equivocating, I'm stunned. Maybe none of this is shocking to you because you, being Canadian and all (not that there's anything wrong with that), are more prone to seeing both sides of any conflict. I don't know.

As for Rumsfeld, I'll have to go back to that thread. Did you read the whole speech? I read it a few times, I think carefully, and can't even see why it became a cause celebre du jour.

It's all too big to discuss in a post but I am in your corner when it comes to trying to accurately frame an opponent's argument. You know, some years back when the lousy university, Cal State Northridge, planned a debate on affirmative action they had whoever they had from the Pro side -- can't recall -- but to represent the Anti side they brought in Ex-KKK Grand Kliegle, David Duke! I thought it was transparently unfair and to use a word I usually don't use -- disengenous.

YES, I agree with you on the Ann Coulter bomb NYT comment.  Some of these subjects just seem to appear on Drudge and then they are the subject on every talk show on TV and Radio, the late night shows and the news magazines.  Until the next day/week.  Most of it is silly.  Most of it is a distraction.   I have loved reading this Foreign Affairs magazine I bought last week for the reason that it deals with the meat of serious issues and is straight forward, unfettered by snarky partisan political attacks.  Such a treat to read the thoughtful commentary of educated, informed individuals and not have a clue WHAT their political persuasion!

It's late now. I'm tired.  Frightened by the state of humanity? I don't think I'd characterize it that way. Maybe on the grand scale. On the individual one on one level, myself, I generally enjoy virtually every interaction I have with each and every human I encounter.  Were I wider awake, I think I could give some reasons for why taking such trends seriously, regardless of the pain it brings, may be in order.

Nighty night. Next time I won't jump in and answer for Raymond either!

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Aw poor good tired Susan. I figured the way to find those quotes was to go by date between July 12 to August 12. I knew it was a pain in the adze and figured Jaime could just do it himself. And then J's sarcastic posts were not a motivator to jump into a research project for him.

If I present to you as an established fact, Raymond, that the majority of American news reportage and public political discourse is generally quite far to the right of center, it's my job to convince you, not yours to convince yourself.

Regardless, as I said, I did spend time looking, I just didn't spend any finding. But, as I also said, had I not misunderstood what you and Susan had meant in your comments, I wouldn't have bothered to try -- reading the halfwits who populate most of those political forums and comment pages -- left, right, or other -- makes my brain hurt behind my eyes.

And since Lebanon...

...this news from the UK Times. What are everyday Brits doing about this?

Susan

The Times September 02, 2006 Attacks on Jews soar since Lebanon By Joanna Bale and Anthony Browne Synagogues and citizens have been targeted BRITISH Jews are facing a wave of anti-Semitic attacks prompted by Israel’s conflict with Hezbollah in Lebanon. Synagogues have been daubed with graffiti, Jewish leaders have had hate-mail and ordinary people have been subjected to insults and vandalism. On Thursday an all-party parliamentary inquiry will state that anti-Semitic violence has become endemic in Britain, both on the streets and university campuses. The report will call for urgent action from the Government, the police and educational establishments. Mark Gardner, of the Community Security Trust, said: “In July, when the conflict in Lebanon began, we received reports of 92 incidents, which was the third-worst month since records began in 1984.” In 2000 the monthly average was between 10 and 30 incidents. The former minister Denis MacShane, who chaired the parliamentary inquiry, said: “These figures confirm the evidence given to us that anti-Semitic attacks are a very real problem.” The Board of Deputies of British Jews submitted evidence to the inquiry that anti-Semitism in Britain was at its worst level. The July incidents “were more dispersed than usual”, Mr Gardner said. “It is usually a small number responsible for a large number of attacks, but these were very widespread across the country and included graffiti attacks on synagogues in Edinburgh and Glasgow.” The attackers, when visible, are from across society, he said. “When it’s verbal abuse, it’s just ordinary people in the street, from middle-class women to working-class men. All colours and backgrounds. We hardly ever see incidents involving the classic neo-Nazi skinhead. Muslims are over-represented.” In hate-mail to senior Jewish figures, ordinary Jewish people were being blamed for the deaths of Lebanese civilians. “There are also references to the Holocaust, saying that Hitler should have wiped out the Jews.” Mr Gardner said that the rise in attacks reflected increased hostility to Israel and Jews in the media and across society: “The number of anti-Semitic attacks reflects the mood music around Jews and Israel.” There have been several attacks in Golders Green and Hampstead Garden Suburb in North London, where there is a large Jewish population. La Maison du Café in Golders Green Road was targeted two weeks ago by two young men who threw chairs at the restaurant, punched workers and threatened to kill the owner, Ruth Cohen, with a knife. Ms Cohen, 34, said: “They asked if it was a Jewish restaurant. They said they were going to kill me and called me a ‘dirty Jew’, a ‘stinking Jew’. One of them had a knife. A colleague came out. They started punching him and throwing chairs.” In Hampstead Garden Suburb, swastikas and the words “Kill all Jews” and “Allah” were daubed on the house and car of Justin Stebbing. Dr Stebbing, who works at a hospital, said: “I felt violated. It’s horrible.” Jon Benjamin, of the Board of Deputies, said: “The problem is the spin that Israel is an irredeemably evil regime, and we are concerned that it may become common currency to connect British Jews with this.” The Association of Chief Police Officers said: “Our National Community Tension Team are alert to recent incidents. We are working with the CST. We are strongly encouraging reporting of incidents.”

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin