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| 1. Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:24 AM |
| coolspringsj |
Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/8/2007 Posts:3412
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Let me preface this by saying I loved the Secret Diary by Jennifer Lynch and have read it multiple times with it having a lot of sentimental value from my idyllic youth. In the diary, BOB "communicates" with Laura almost constantly (with all of the all-caps text in the diary). Does this diminish the power and mystery surrounding the spirit BOB or does it enhance it and allow us to learn more about him? I personally think, as much as I love BOB, it greatly diminishes his power as a character because I think less really is more when it comes to our favorite demonic entity. I understand since he was trying to possess Laura there probably would have been a lot of conversation between the two but I think it takes away a lot of the fear and supernatural power he exudes during the series and film when he only shows up sporadically and keeps talk to a minimum usually substituting growls and maniacal grins. What are your thoughts on the portrayal of BOB in the diary in comparison to the series/film?
"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this." -Dale Cooper
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| 2. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:35 AM |
| Nefud |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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i really like bob's dialogue in the books, it kind of illustrates how laura got so warped. imagine that presence in your life, probably your whole life, and what that would do to you. not to mention the bonus creepy points for "in this seed is death indeed," jesus h
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| 3. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:36 AM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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Is the Laura character less powerful because we have a diary and a prequel film? imo, I'd say 'no.'
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| 4. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:38 AM |
| coolspringsj |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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| QUOTE:Is the Laura character less powerful because we have a diary and a prequel film? imo, I'd say 'no.' |
Laura and BOB are like comparing apples and oranges. Laura is a human being with secrets. BOB is a supernatural entity from another place that our race knows next to nothing about. BOB is the subject here, not Laura.
Nefud, are you referring to that dream where Laura has to eat BOB's "seed"? Yuck and major creepy.
"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this." -Dale Cooper
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| 5. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:44 AM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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But ontologically speaking, BOB is also the evil that men do. We can't understand Leland or Laura without understanding BOB, because he is so much a part of their psyches. BOB talking through Laura in the diary is evidence of that.
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| 6. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:44 AM |
| Nefud |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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i don't know if this means i'm naive or misguided or whatever but i didn't really "get" how oppressive the patriarchy in this country is until i read the diary and watched FWWM so i really appreciate not only how much it fleshed out bob, but laura's character as well. changed me for the better once it sunk in.
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| 7. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:54 AM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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| QUOTE:i don't know if this means i'm naive or misguided or whatever but i didn't really "get" how oppressive the patriarchy in this country is until i read the diary and watched FWWM so i really appreciate not only how much it fleshed out bob, but laura's character as well. changed me for the better once it sunk in. |
Que? You mean because Laura's feminine power is so much more realized in the Diary (instead of being a mute damsel in distress?)
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| 8. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:56 AM |
| Booth |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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yes, gonna read some Deleuze now *strokes beard*
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| 9. Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:59 AM |
| coolspringsj |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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Again....I'm not referring to Laura in any way, shape, or form. I am solely gesticulating on the villian character of this piece - BOB. His portrayal in the diary is a jabbering chatterbox (which in a way makes sense since he is trying to communicate with the character he is trying to inhabit), whereas in the series and film he is more portrayed as a malignant entity with ambiguous intentions that instills a far greater onscreen personification of fear. The diary in my opinion dilutes his power in reference to how viewers see the character of BOB. Do fans like both portrayals of BOB in the diary vs. series or do you find him in the diary overexposed and distilled?
"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this." -Dale Cooper
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| 10. Thursday, February 5, 2009 12:00 PM |
| Nefud |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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QUOTE: | QUOTE:i don't know if this means i'm naive or misguided or whatever but i didn't really "get" how oppressive the patriarchy in this country is until i read the diary and watched FWWM so i really appreciate not only how much it fleshed out bob, but laura's character as well. changed me for the better once it sunk in. |
Que? You mean because Laura's feminine power is so much more realized in the Diary (instead of being a mute damsel in distress?) |
partially, but it's also about the giant pile of other people's needs and expectations dumped on her. it wasn't like anything i experienced growing up, and i recognized that it happens to some degree to the vast majority of women i know.
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| 11. Thursday, February 5, 2009 12:01 PM |
| Booth |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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QUOTE: His portrayal in the diary is a jabbering chatterbox (which in a way makes sense since he is trying to communicate with the character he is trying to inhabit), whereas in the series and film he is more portrayed as a malignant entity with ambiguous intentions that instills a far greater onscreen personification of fear.
| Bob, son of a thousand maniacs.
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| 12. Thursday, February 5, 2009 12:09 PM |
| coolspringsj |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/8/2007 Posts:3412
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QUOTE: QUOTE: His portrayal in the diary is a jabbering chatterbox (which in a way makes sense since he is trying to communicate with the character he is trying to inhabit), whereas in the series and film he is more portrayed as a malignant entity with ambiguous intentions that instills a far greater onscreen personification of fear.
| Bob, son of a thousand maniacs.
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BOB does like the Dream Warriors song by Dokken.
"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this." -Dale Cooper
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| 13. Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:17 PM |
| Hello Kinky |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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He's a lot more frightening when he's grinning maniacally and making those animal noises, I find that film/series BOB is scariest because he has no human elements, it'd be like trying to reason with a hungry lion. Diary BOB is still terrifying ("In this seed is death indeed", "hundreds of little cuts", etc.) but he is essentially human-like, albeit a sick child-abusing one.
The little bitch Is awfully sorry The little bitch Drinks you up
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| 14. Friday, February 6, 2009 1:06 AM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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No, I don't think the Diary overexposes BOB. I think the exposure is much needed, as is the case with Laura. They both need voices.
BOB just aint scary to me without that kind of menace. He's in her head- that's flipping terrifying.
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| 15. Friday, February 6, 2009 7:20 AM |
| Nefud |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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i didn't care all that much for fire walk with me until i read the diary. now i can't imagine what that movie would be like without it. for instance, the scene with the log lady is either without diary: "oh, jeez, they decided to shoehorn the log lady in. that was weird. whatever." with diary: "wow, that's the log lady, one of the few positive influences from laura's young teenage years. she saw her when she was just beginning to go down this path, and here she is now that it's almost over." the diary matters quite a bit, it's vastly underrated even among fans imo.
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| 16. Friday, February 6, 2009 8:41 AM |
| charles |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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I always felt that BOB's character was diminished more in the film than in the diary. In the series (and to a lesser extent in the diary), it's pretty straightforward; BOB, the demon in the woods, possesses Leland at an early age, then for years, through Leland's body, terrorizes and ultimately brutally kills Laura. So tragic and deeply fascinating and mysterious. In the Diary, we don't know that BOB has been doing his dirty deeds through Leland and he remains, despite his maniacal ramblings, a pretty dark and frightening enigma –just a little more fleshed out than we see in the series. The film, however, (in my view) takes a lot of BOB's characters power away by implying that he is merely the dark side of Leland and/or a fantasy-being fabricated by Laura in order to block out that fact that her father has been having his way with her. The mystery surrounding the Theresa Banks case in the series is made compelling by its very vagueness, as it seems that the direct responsibility for her murder lies in the supernatural hands of BOB rather than Leland's. I prefer the idea of Leland as the mere week vessel of BOB's fiendish evil-doings. The film portrays Theresa's murder as the result of her threat to Leland that she'll expose their affair to Sarah. To me, that's pretty lame. Where does BOB come into that equation at all? It just paints Leland as this stock dad/husband who's willing to kill his mistress to save his marriage and reputation. Though I truly love aspects of the movie, in my more cynical moments my synopsis of the film is this: A disturbed husband/father has an affair with a waitress and is driven to murder her when she threatens to expose him. His daughter, whom he's been molesting for years, breaks through to the reality that her father has been screwing her, not the demon she's created to deal with such a an ugly truth. Father realizes that she's caught on and kills her before she too can expose him. Ho hum.
While I do respect this as an alternate interpretaion of Laura's life and death, and enjoy it on its own as a film, I'm consistently bummed at how much it takes away from the supernatural side of the story (namely BOB and the "evil in the woods"), which is what I enjoyed so much about the series and the diary.
InTwinPeaks.com
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| 17. Friday, February 6, 2009 8:52 AM |
| Booth |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/20/2006 Posts:4388
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| QUOTE: Ho hum. I'm consistently bummed at how much it takes away from the supernatural side of the story (namely BOB and the "evil in the woods"), which is what I enjoyed so much about the series and the diary.
| High five.
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| 18. Friday, February 6, 2009 10:08 AM |
| coolspringsj |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/8/2007 Posts:3412
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I have also noticed a trend that most female Peaks fans like/love the diary. What are the reasons behind this that it works on another level than it does with most male fans?
"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this." -Dale Cooper
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| 19. Friday, February 6, 2009 10:18 AM |
| faceintheleaves |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 5/8/2006 Posts:712
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| QUOTE: I always felt that BOB's character was diminished more in the film than in the diary. In the series (and to a lesser extent in the diary), it's pretty straightforward; BOB, the demon in the woods, possesses Leland at an early age, then for years, through Leland's body, terrorizes and ultimately brutally kills Laura. So tragic and deeply fascinating and mysterious. In the Diary, we don't know that BOB has been doing his dirty deeds through Leland and he remains, despite his maniacal ramblings, a pretty dark and frightening enigma –just a little more fleshed out than we see in the series. The film, however, (in my view) takes a lot of BOB's characters power away by implying that he is merely the dark side of Leland and/or a fantasy-being fabricated by Laura in order to block out that fact that her father has been having his way with her. The mystery surrounding the Theresa Banks case in the series is made compelling by its very vagueness, as it seems that the direct responsibility for her murder lies in the supernatural hands of BOB rather than Leland's. I prefer the idea of Leland as the mere week vessel of BOB's fiendish evil-doings. The film portrays Theresa's murder as the result of her threat to Leland that she'll expose their affair to Sarah. To me, that's pretty lame. Where does BOB come into that equation at all? It just paints Leland as this stock dad/husband who's willing to kill his mistress to save his marriage and reputation. Though I truly love aspects of the movie, in my more cynical moments my synopsis of the film is this: A disturbed husband/father has an affair with a waitress and is driven to murder her when she threatens to expose him. His daughter, whom he's been molesting for years, breaks through to the reality that her father has been screwing her, not the demon she's created to deal with such a an ugly truth. Father realizes that she's caught on and kills her before she too can expose him. Ho hum.
While I do respect this as an alternate interpretaion of Laura's life and death, and enjoy it on its own as a film, I'm consistently bummed at how much it takes away from the supernatural side of the story (namely BOB and the "evil in the woods"), which is what I enjoyed so much about the series and the diary.
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As Comic Book Guy from The Simpson's might put it, best post ever. I would have written that myself if I didn't have a short attention span. Over the years the sexual abuse theory has become more and more prominent and gone from being one of many different interpretations to the interpretation.
I've always seen Leland as a victim and the tragedy of the series is that he was forced to sexually abuse and kill the daughter he clearly loved. To reduce him to an deranged child molester reduces the series, the film and the book to self-indulgent bollocks. The woods aren't mysterious or dark, it's just mass hysteria, and Cooper enters the lodge only to come out posessed by... what exactly?... his own animal impulses? Zzzzz. I don't think DL endorses the idea that Bob's just a metaphor... I think his words have been taken out of context by the newer fans and over-enthusiastic academics. To quote the Log Lady's poem; Pain for the victim, pain for the inflicter of pain. A circle of pain, a circle of suffering.
That concept drives the whole narrative of Twin Peaks. It's the reason the One Armed Man says to Bob (in the script) "That's his own daughter you're killing". I find the idea that Leland is forced to murder Laura as horrifying as anything Laura goes through. A lot off people don't get that because they're so paranoid about misogyny.
I ran from the noise and the silence, from the traffic on the streets
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| 20. Friday, February 6, 2009 10:47 AM |
| Nefud |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/2/2007 Posts:1793
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| QUOTE: While I do respect this as an alternate interpretaion of Laura's life and death, and enjoy it on its own as a film, I'm consistently bummed at how much it takes away from the supernatural side of the story (namely BOB and the "evil in the woods"), which is what I enjoyed so much about the series and the diary.
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i really think you're not giving it enough credit. it's never that straightforward. one of the few things i still really like to chew on his how much was leland and how much was bob, and where the distinction between the two lies. if anything it's the series that's way too cut and dry, saying that bob posessed leland and leland was really a good daddy if only that nasty ghost in the woods hadn't got him. "ho hum" indeed.
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| 21. Friday, February 6, 2009 10:53 AM |
| coolspringsj |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/8/2007 Posts:3412
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I think BOB posessed Leland, but Leland is still equally as guilty for being weak enough to allow him in at the Pearl Lakes. I think it's stupid when people want to say BOB is just a metaphor just so they can explain away the possible existence of supernatural phenomena.
"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this." -Dale Cooper
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| 22. Friday, February 6, 2009 10:57 AM |
| Booth |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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| QUOTE:I think BOB posessed Leland, but Leland is still equally as guilty for being weak enough to allow him in at the Pearl Lakes. I think it's stupid when people want to say BOB is just a metaphor just so they can explain away the possible existence of supernatural phenomena. | The zombies are really just a commentary on consumerism, not living corpses, that would be silly. Now I can enjoy this horror movie.
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| 23. Friday, February 6, 2009 10:58 AM |
| coolspringsj |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/8/2007 Posts:3412
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QUOTE: | QUOTE:I think BOB posessed Leland, but Leland is still equally as guilty for being weak enough to allow him in at the Pearl Lakes. I think it's stupid when people want to say BOB is just a metaphor just so they can explain away the possible existence of supernatural phenomena. | The zombies are really just a commentary on consumerism, not living corpses, that would be silly. Now I can enjoy this horror movie.
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You can take your George Romero and stuff it, mister!
"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this." -Dale Cooper
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| 24. Friday, February 6, 2009 11:04 AM |
| Nefud |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
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QUOTE: The zombies are really just a commentary on consumerism, not living corpses, that would be silly. Now I can enjoy this horror movie.
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that's unironically how i work when it comes to zombie movies
i really dislike the millitary-industrial complex, so day of the dead is my all-time favorite
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| 25. Friday, February 6, 2009 11:06 AM |
| Booth |
RE: Secret Diary/BOB |
Member Since 8/20/2006 Posts:4388
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George Romero's fists are literally made out of ham.
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