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26. Thursday, April 6, 2006 8:44 AM
jasperjohn RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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if thats true then why does the story continue after both the daughter and the father are dead? huh huh huh? can u answer that now huh?

 
27. Thursday, April 6, 2006 8:53 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I said the "core of TWIN PEAKS" specifically, to my mind it continued cos it was seen to be successful but I think it failed to continue much after "father and daughter were dead" because the heart of it was played out and it's creators had said most of what they wished to say. The lightness and silliness (Windom Earle as the Log Lady!) marred the series ending so FWWM needed to focus on the real story to bring it back on track to end it properly.


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28. Thursday, April 6, 2006 8:57 AM
Laura was a patient of mine RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I agree with Exy on almost everything. The Laura Palmer storyline was the heart of the show... when they took that away it went way downhill. It was still fun and enjoyable, but it just wasn't the same Twin Peaks. However I love episode 29... it may be that the real problem was David Lynch wasn't really working with the show... it might have been able to find another center if it continued (maybe). I disagree about FWWM though, I didn't think it was nearly as good as the first half of the series, or episode 29.


That god damn trailer's more popular than Uncle's Day in a whorehouse!

 
29. Thursday, April 6, 2006 9:30 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I agree with Jasperjohn!

Yes,the story was not the same without Leland and Laura.But,excuse me,is it obligatory a movie to have a happy ending?It will turn into a soap this way! BOB is REAL! The whole story is about the evil,hiding in the woods,the endless evil-the shadow-self of Twin Peaks.I agree with Windom Earle's theories,he describes this evil in the best way! Windom Earle's subplot is one of the best in the whole show!Jeez,this man is unique!Genius!


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
30. Thursday, April 6, 2006 9:35 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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QUOTE:if thats true then why does the story continue after both the daughter and the father are dead? huh huh huh? can u answer that now huh?


 Good one,Jasper!

I love you!


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
31. Thursday, April 6, 2006 11:38 AM
Rami Airola RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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QUOTE:if thats true then why does the story continue after both the daughter and the father are dead? huh huh huh? can u answer that now huh?

If a man has a problem, kills someone and soon himself gets killed, the thing behind the problem isn't gone with the death of the victim and the killer. After they both are gone we can still talk about the problems that caused that nice man to do such a terrible thing. That really was the core of Twin Peaks. And because of that the show died.

They had no intention to kill Leland. Or at least not so soon. Please, read Chris Rodley's book Lynch on Lynch. There the man himself says that the bad guys (rapists and killers) usually are those who seem to be good guys. Those "I never thought he could do such a horrible things" kind of guys. Lynch said that their problems just grow too big. That happened with Leland.

 

 
32. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:33 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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QUOTE: I think the core of TWIN PEAKS is David Lynch wanting to put out on prime time TV, an allegorical show about small town American family life where everything on the surface is lovely and yet, behind closed doors, a father (and respected member of the community) could rape and murder his own daughter. There is much to dress this up and take the sting out of it to get it on prime time TV, but at it's heart is that tragic and unsettling story.

I don't know if people skim read or if there is a language barrier issue, so I've quoted myself to be sure...

How can anyone argue that the rape and murder of Laura Palmer by her father was not the heart of the show? I'm sorry but I don't buy this "BOB IS REAL!" line as some easy explanation that dismisses the tragic and disturbing nature of Laura and Leland's relationship.

BOB is a representation of the evil that men do, if you want something safe that doesn't challenge your comfortable world view then stick to Star Trek or Buffy! The fact that the rape and murder of a daughter by her father is not dissipated is what makes this a Lynch project, not just another off-beat TV series, for me.


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33. Friday, April 7, 2006 1:35 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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"Rami" and "Laura was a patient of mine" seem to be on the same page as me on this. I didn't say that FWWM was better than the rest of the series post Leland's death, but it was more fitting that the show should close focusing on what had been the core driving element. I think Lynch did this to counteract what he saw as the silliness that had crept in towards the end before ep. 29 (although I still can't stand seeing Earle dressed up as the Log Lady).


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34. Friday, April 7, 2006 1:34 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I will quote Cooper " Is it easier for you to believe that man can rape and murder his own daughter?"

Let's be more imaginative!And yes,BOB is real!Many people saw him in visions. 


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
35. Friday, April 7, 2006 5:43 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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Seeing "BOB" in visions does not prove he is real, quite the opposite, wouldn't you agree? People sensed an evil presence, that evil manifested itself in Leland as "BOB". It's not easier to cope with the fact of a man raping and murdering his daughter but simply blaming the Bogeyman, "BOB", is not what Lynch was intending, I am sure of that.


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36. Friday, April 7, 2006 1:42 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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Well,many people saw this "long-haired man" does this mean  they are crazy and made this up?

As I said why don't you be more imaginative and look the things from the other side? ;)

But I admit you are right about what you say. 

 


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
37. Friday, April 7, 2006 2:00 AM
jasperjohn RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I agree with whats being said here too and that the Laura Palmer murder is the central theme of Twin Peaks... but I thik Bob is real... hes a spirit with unfinished business and will continue to kill until his duty is done.... they could have explored the Mike/Bob relationship a bit more in the series to discover why exactly they split and why the killings are being carried on... in fwwm, the man with the one arm is in the woods and throws the ring into the carriage... wasnt that mike?

 
38. Friday, April 7, 2006 2:05 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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QUOTE: but I thik Bob is real... hes a spirit with unfinished business and will continue to kill until his duty is done...


 You are quite right about this.

There is really more than heaven and earth(like the Major said)

We are not alone in the Universe!


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
39. Friday, April 7, 2006 2:54 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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So, do you think BOB is a Spirit, an Alien, or an Alien Spirit?


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40. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:03 AM
jasperjohn RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I think hes a spirit.... havent seen the entire season 2 yet so cant comment on the aliens

 
41. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:10 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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BOB is an inhabiting spirit(I think Mike's words were very clear) ;)

And was Maddy crazy when she saw his face on the floor in Palmer's living room?

Was Sarah crazy when she saw him kneeling behind Laura's bed?

Was Donna crazy when she said she saw Mrs Tremond and her grandson,who both disappeared after that?

Or was Cooper crazy when he saw the giant in his room?Or maybe Ronette was crazy when they showed her the police sketch of BOB in the hospital and she started screamin'? And how will you explain the fact that Laura and Cooper had one and the same dream? Maybe the TP citizens are crazy? And why did Josie die?Who killed her???

I don't say all these things exist in OUR world,what we saw in the series was an illusion adn in the world of Twin Peaks these spirits and mysteries DO exist!The evil has a face!The face of BOB.

 


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
42. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:12 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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In the world of TWIN PEAKS are these spirits confined to planet Earth though, I assumed you thought not when you said "we're not alone in the Universe", so are Dugpas then supposed to come from outer space? Or was Major Briggs abducted within the confines of this planet and the Dugpas are based, more traditionally, in Tibet?


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43. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:14 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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In the world of TP these spirits exist.They are on the earth.

Now out of the TP world, I say I believe we are not alone in the universe.Who knows?


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
44. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:30 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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So, do you think, BOB is a Dugpa (ancient Tibetan Black Sorcerer) and Project Blue Book is a red herring and whilst Briggs and Earle might think this evil is extraterrestrial, ironically it's not?


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45. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:34 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I don't know this,what you are asking about.

I only know that BOB is an inhabiting spirit(this is something which was said clearly in the show)


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
46. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:37 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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The Dugpas were also clearly mentioned. Episode 27, I believe.


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47. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:38 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I KNOW that they were clearly mentioned,but I also said that I don't know if BOB is a Dugpa.I don't have an opinion about that.

And what do YOU think about that?Is he a Dugpa? 


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
48. Friday, April 7, 2006 4:18 AM
Exy RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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I think BOB could be a Dugpa, an Alien, or a Spirit, but the fact that it is never made sure exactly what he is leads me to believe that he isn't any one thing, but an idea, a representation of something evil.

I think it is perfectly possible that Lynch played on the ambiguity of what BOB might be as a device to mask the truth of the situation, which is that the mentally disturbed Leland Palmer, regularly sexually abused and eventually murdered his daughter, Laura.

If you think of Leland in the context of Fred Madison in "Lost Highway" and Diane Selwyn in "Mulholland Drive" it is fair to assume that this reading was Lynch's intention but that it had to be disguised for prime time TV consumption.


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49. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:55 AM
ivalinda RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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Man,I really accept your view of the show.Mine (and I believe not only mine,and many many others' )is different .It's normal.Maybe you just don't want to be an imaginative person and don't believe in supernatural things.OK!I think that TP won't give the same feeling if we accept that Leland is a crazy mentally ill father who raped and murdered his child.And I don't believe Lynch intended exacly this.I will never believe that it was Leland's fault!Yes,I agree there are many many fathers in the world who are crazy and do such disgusting things to their children,but the case in TP is different.


Beware of BOB

BOBBOB

When I call out no one can hear me,when I whisper he thinks the message is for him only..my little voice inside my throat,I always think there must be something that I've done or something I can do...But no one no one comes to help,he says,a little girl like you...

 
50. Friday, April 7, 2006 3:56 AM
Rami Airola RE: Leland/Bob=Who's in control?


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First of all, most of the people cannot see Bob. Only few can see him. I think of Bob as The Tempter (Satan, if you wish). Those who can't see Bob are alone with their temptations. Bob is whispering to their ears but they can't hear it or see him the way the few could. In real life, people are constantly fighting against odd urges. I believe the "whispers" in real life are caused by the Tempter. It's not a physical creature or anything like that, but more like "bad" energy. That energy, or spirits or whatever, might be constantly around people but it doesn't have any real power unless people "accept" those whispers. We can't get rid of that energy but we can try to ignore it. We can try to ignore our thoughts. If we fail doing it, we do what we are craving to do. We do what those "whispers" are saying (even if we really do not hear them as it's not that kind of whispering as we know it)

I believe Bob was meant to explain that situation to us. I believe that in the story of Twin Peaks some people were created to have that ability to see and hear the energy just so that we could understand that kind of abstraction better. As Lynch himself has said, Bob and LMFAP are abstractions. And reading the FMMW script you can see that Ms. Tremond was supposed to say that "why not be composed of materials and combinations of atoms" and few lines before it the Woodsman said "we have descended from pure air." I believe those lines were supposed to explain us what I just said. They aren't originally physical beings but pure energy who can be shown to some people as physical beings because "why not."

About that Cooper's line about the difficulty of thinking that a man could do sucah a terrible thing. There's the point. It is difficult to think like that but it doesn't put away the fact that every single day there are these nice and kind people doing something really disturbing because their problems have grown too big and they have given in to their urges and temptation (given in to the Tempter, to Bob).

I'm saying that yes, there is Bob in the world of Twin Peaks but he is also a metaphor of people's lack of strength to ignore the temptation. Just like the Tempter and Satan are. And just as God is a metaphor for the Creator of everything and all the goodness there is. They are metaphors because we can't see them concretically. It doesn't take away the possibility that they can exist. 

In her life Laura was very very weak in fighting against it. She was so weak that she had to die to finally be stronger than it. She was human. Humans are weak but in death we can have the salvation. Leland had the salvation and so had Laura. After death we can finally be free of the bad energy or if we are too weak we turn into that bad energy ourselves. (and that's why it's better not to do a suicide so that we can gain the strength for the final triumph)

 

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