Home | Register | Login | Members  

Twin Peaks & FWWM > Corporeal or Illusory?
New Topic | Post Reply
<< | 1 | 2 | >>  
1. Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:34 PM
coolspringsj Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 8/8/2007
 Posts:3412

 View Profile
 Send PM
 One of the most compelling deliberations amongst Twin Peaks academics is the quandary
of the role of BOB as maleficent phantasm or merely an invention of Laura's psyche to
masquerade as the incestuous debasement coerced upon her by her father Leland.  Both factions
of the highly perspicacious fanbase stand resolutely on their respective sides of the
proverbial fence concerning this crucial matter. One segment argues that BOB is merely a
figment of the imagination to operate as a veil over one man's perversions whereas the other
claims BOB is an entity supernatural in origin that has been witnessed by multiple characters
in this abstract tragedy via dreams, hallucinatory visions, and another instance where humans
"physically" enter the spirit world of the Red Room/Black Lodge.  I tend to agree with the
latter and do not believe the answer can lie with both, however some argue David Lynch tried
to mold the prequel film into this type of portrayal of the mind in a return to his original
vision of this magnificent parable.  I believe we can reach a conclusion to this puzzling
debate with a melding of the minds and thoughtful expostulation.  This diabolical spirit
has haunted the darker catacombs of my mind for the better portion of my existence and I
would humbly appreciate your guidance in this most troubling matter in reaching a comfortable
exactitude.  Do we discount phenomena for its lack of tangible values and in the process
build make-believe forts around our fragile minds or are there some things beyond our literal
existence which lurk in the unexplored fathoms of the unknown that are unable to be processed?
I offer gratitude for your most hasty yet detailed replies and want to convey my faith in your
ability to achieve clarity along with the author whom has presented this most tormenting
enigma.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
2. Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:07 PM
WilliamTheBloody RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 3/12/2009
 Posts:647

 View Profile
 Send PM

I'm one of those annoying people who tries to have it both ways. From about my second or third revisiting of the series (as opposed to when I watched it first-run and didn't think about this stuff) and FWWM, I became convinced that BOB is both real and imaginary. Here's how it breaks down in my mind:

First off, I think it's pretty clear that BOB does not exist ONLY in the mind of Leland and/or Laura. As you point out, too many other people experience BOB's influence for him to be a mere figment of the imagination. And if BOB were simply a construct of one individual's troubled psyche, how could that possibly explain the experience of Cooper, Annie and Windom Earle in the Black Lodge? So that's pretty solid evidence that BOB is a supernatural force, a manifestation of the "darkness" in the woods that Harry warns Cooper about.

But...that never quite covered enough ground for me. It leaves too many questions open (I know that DL is all about leaving questions open, but the fun is in trying to find your own answers). For instance, why does BOB look the way he does? That may seem like a stupid thing to focus on, but it's something that always nagged at me. One thing in particular that always stuck with me is why BOB would look exactly like someone Leland remembered from his childhood. Now the simple answer is that Leland is simply remembering BOB, and BOB always looked like that. I don't think that's it, though.

I think the evil force that BOB represents looks for people to feed on and it does so by becoming what they fear. Remember Mike saying that BOB feeds on fear? In order to feed on too-good-to-pass-up victim Leland, BOB took on a form from Leland's nightmares. Leland is a molester, pure and simple. And most molesters were victims of molestation themselves. I think when we look at BOB, we're looking at the guy who sexually preyed on Leland as a child when he went with his parents up to Pearl Lake. Leland probably repressed these memories, creating a deep well for BOB to drink from.

I think in Lynch's worlds, it almost always works this way. Things are not either real or imaginary because oftentimes they're both. To my mind, Lynch crafts worlds where people's inner world "leaks out" and has an effect on the world around them.


"What? Did your life pass before your eyes? Cuppa tea, cuppa tea, almost got shagged, cuppa tea..."

 
3. Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:26 PM
Booth RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 8/20/2006
 Posts:4388

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:

One thing in particular that always stuck with me is why BOB would look exactly like someone Leland remembered from his childhood.

I wasn't around in the 50s but that denim on denim look is much more 80s than 50s to me.

 
4. Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:05 PM
WilliamTheBloody RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 3/12/2009
 Posts:647

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:
QUOTE:

One thing in particular that always stuck with me is why BOB would look exactly like someone Leland remembered from his childhood.

I wasn't around in the 50s but that denim on denim look is much more 80s than 50s to me.

 So your explanation is that BOB's evil powers afford him access to awful fashion trends of the future?


"What? Did your life pass before your eyes? Cuppa tea, cuppa tea, almost got shagged, cuppa tea..."

 
5. Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:15 PM
Booth RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 8/20/2006
 Posts:4388

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:
 So your explanation is that BOB's evil powers afford him access to awful fashion trends of the future?
No, my explanation is that Bob's appearance was decided before the particulars of his nature.

 
6. Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:32 PM
WilliamTheBloody RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 3/12/2009
 Posts:647

 View Profile
 Send PM
Ok, fair enough. However, nowhere did I mention the way BOB dresses. Neither, for that matter, does Leland. He recognizes Andy's sketch of BOB's face. He says "I know this man!" Not "I know this man--and he was dressed just like this!"


"What? Did your life pass before your eyes? Cuppa tea, cuppa tea, almost got shagged, cuppa tea..."

 
7. Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:41 PM
12rainbow RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:4953

 View Profile
 Send PM
Holy verbosity, Batman. You need an editor, j.

(Scholarly writing begs to be made fun of.)

 
8. Monday, June 1, 2009 9:25 AM
KahlanMnel RE: Corporeal or Illusory?

 Moderator
 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:13606

 View Profile
 Send PM
j, please tell me you copied that from one of the essays in Full of Secrets, because reading that made my vagina hurt.


~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

 
9. Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:12 AM
coolspringsj RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 8/8/2007
 Posts:3412

 View Profile
 Send PM

lol    


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
10. Monday, June 1, 2009 2:34 PM
KahlanMnel RE: Corporeal or Illusory?

 Moderator
 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:13606

 View Profile
 Send PM
Lemme rephrase. It made my vagina hurt in a bad way that I wish to avoid in the future.


~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

 
11. Monday, June 1, 2009 2:37 PM
coolspringsj RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 8/8/2007
 Posts:3412

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:Lemme rephrase. It made my vagina hurt in a bad way that I wish to avoid in the future.

 My real name is Martha P. Nochimson.  I wrote a book about Lynch once.  Buy it some time or else I will bite you.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
12. Wednesday, June 3, 2009 3:11 PM
Cooped RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 6/15/2006
 Posts:492

 View Profile
 Send PM
did you OD on a dictionary? lollllzzzz ahm a funny guy

 
13. Wednesday, June 3, 2009 3:17 PM
coolspringsj RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 8/8/2007
 Posts:3412

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:did you OD on a dictionary? lollllzzzz ahm a funny guy

 Close, but no cigar.  I snorted a thesaurus.  Cut it up on a mirror and used a dolla bill, y'alz.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
14. Thursday, June 4, 2009 2:49 AM
JFK RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 5/5/2007
 Posts:562

 View Profile
 Send PM
try it with an english one next time.

 
15. Friday, January 22, 2010 12:37 AM
Henry Kane RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 1/21/2010
 Posts:18

 View Profile
 Send PM

*necromancer mode on - couldn't resist, sry*

I think you guys just make a philosophy out of things that are simple, really. Remember that BOB wasn't originally part of the plot, he was created accidentally, and because Lynch liked how Silva's own appearance fitted in.  And what a supernatural entity should look like? A big cloud of special effects? That's not in Lynch's style. His supernatural looks like a normality, but normality weird and twisted.


Dancing on the path and singing, now you got away.
 
16. Friday, January 22, 2010 8:41 AM
faceintheleaves RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 5/8/2006
 Posts:712

 View Profile
 Send PM

You guys! The Booth versus WilliamThe Bloody double denim debate (a look only evil incarnate could love) and critiques from 12rainbow and KahlanMnel make this my favourite post in donkeys years. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against all the people who go to the trouble of joining a board about a TV series they've never seen (I am Buddha perfection... deep breath) but I like it best when the threads are about, you know, stuff... I often catch myself thinking a poster has delighted me long enough and then realise it was their first post. If boredom could kill one of the numerous "I think BOB is real" threads would have done for me years ago.

I do love this board. 12rainbow's posts are always worth reading and lazy Miss Amanda's non-moderation never fails to make me feel better about the world. If I was moderator I'd banish so many people, it'd be like that other Twin Peaks board by the time I'd finished (i.e. brown bread).

And since I'm here, I'm going to have to go with corporeal because once you remove BOB as supernatural entity, Laura choosing to die, the Log Lady, the Lodges, the One Armed Man, the Tremond's, Sarah's visions, the meeting above the convenience store and even Hawk's speech about souls (everything I love about Twin Peaks) become tinsel. I need Laura to be a coke snorting metaphysical Wonder Woman, otherwise it'd all be unbearably sad. I need more from Twin Peaks than "Damn fine coffee", "Oh no! I killed my daughter!", "Laura imagined the whole thing...", "Evelyn Marsh did it!" and "Save the pine weasel".  


I ran from the noise and the silence, from the traffic on the streets
 
17. Friday, January 22, 2010 8:45 AM
LODGE4 RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 4/12/2007
 Posts:217

 View Profile
 Send PM
Bob is most certainly NOT the figment of Laura's imagination - if that were so, the last 20 minutes of the series would not exist. How could a figment of Laura's imagination kill Windom Earl, put Annie in the hospital and possess agent Cooper ?

 
18. Friday, January 22, 2010 8:49 AM
wizardofxenia RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 7/7/2009
 Posts:334

 View Profile
 Send PM
You're missing the point.  Dance like a dixie-cup in old grey mare's barn


There was a fiish..iinn the percolatrr!

 
19. Friday, January 22, 2010 8:01 PM
Ivan Sputnik RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 11/11/2007
 Posts:109

 View Profile
 Send PM

Could Bob be something like a tulpa? Tulpa is a term in mysticism that refers to a being who is created through willpower. It is a materialized thought in physical form.

"The word 'tulpa' is from the Tibetan language and refers to any entity that attains reality solely by the act of imagination. The entity is created entirely within the confines of ones own mind, not drawn out, written down or even verbally described.

If its creator wishes, this 'Tulpa Creation' may become physical reality through intense concentration and visualization."

http://www.tulpa.com/explain/tulpaexplain.html

http://www.tulpa.com/explain/alexandra.html

http://www.davisanddavis.org/harvey/tulpa.html

 


The question is, Where have you gone?
 
20. Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:15 AM
Henry Kane RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 1/21/2010
 Posts:18

 View Profile
 Send PM

Heh. I don't think Lynch ever suggested the majority of theories that rise around his work. :)

Sometimes cigar's just a cigar. And BOB's just a violent otherworldly creature that disobeyed his master. Yes, Leland could've created a nightmare, but 1) it'd be hinted more clearly at, 2) he surely didn't create Lodges, MFAP and the stuff.


Dancing on the path and singing, now you got away.
 
21. Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:55 AM
exper RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 11/2/2008
 Posts:10

 View Profile
 Send PM

I think Bob is just a symbol, a personification of evil.  I believe that the sign on the Vet's office holds the key.  It said "Aid to the beast incarnate" 

 Anyone else?

 
22. Saturday, January 23, 2010 1:15 PM
Henry Kane RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 1/21/2010
 Posts:18

 View Profile
 Send PM
I think we already have enough "symbols" and "representations of" in different media to add TP mythos to their cheesy list.


Dancing on the path and singing, now you got away.
 
23. Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:26 PM
exper RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 11/2/2008
 Posts:10

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:I think we already have enough "symbols" and "representations of" in different media to add TP mythos to their cheesy list.

 

 Then do you think that sign meant nothing?  A random coincidence?  

 
24. Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:52 PM
Henry Kane RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 1/21/2010
 Posts:18

 View Profile
 Send PM
Yes.


Dancing on the path and singing, now you got away.
 
25. Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:58 PM
exper RE: Corporeal or Illusory?


 Member Since
 11/2/2008
 Posts:10

 View Profile
 Send PM

... that David Lynch/Frost went through the trouble of disguising a post office as a vet office with a specific slogan written in large letters on the front?

 Besides that fact that a great deal of Lynch's work deals with personifications of someone's fear or evil?  (Ala Lost Highway)

 Just curious.  I don't know many people that would take Lynch as just being basically what amounts to being sci-fi then...

 

New Topic | Post Reply Page 1 of 2 :: << | 1 | 2 | >>
Twin Peaks & FWWM > Corporeal or Illusory?


Users viewing this Topic (1)
1 Guest


This page was generated in 156 ms.