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Twin Peaks & FWWM
> Teresa Banks' investigation - que?
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| 1. Friday, July 13, 2007 5:38 AM |
| likeitsounds |
Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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Here's a question: Last night I re-read the Cooper book, and it reminded me of something I've never been able to fully reconcile myself to. In the book, Cooper investigates Teresa Banks' murder right from discovery, whereas this obviously isn't the case in FWWM. I know Twin Peaks was full of contradictions, Laura's diary continues after her murder, etc, but this problem has always been a particular bugbear of mine - it's always made me feel disappointed (though I suppose an answer to that would be to move on and perhaps get a life. However, I feel I'm among friends here). So, do you think the film would have been better if it had stuck to the facts as described the book, or do you prefer to think of it being investigated as it was in the film?
"There is no need for medicine. I am not in pain."
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| 2. Friday, July 13, 2007 7:13 AM |
| LogicHat |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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Right, the film is at fault here, whereas the cheap tie-in novelization is what should be considered canon. Originally, Coop was supposed to be the agent in Deer Meadow for the first half of FWWM. But unlike in books, actor involvement can cause rewrites. Kyle wanted less screen time, Chet Desmond was born. New character, new mysteries.
Logic Hat Online- logichat.org
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| 3. Friday, July 13, 2007 7:34 AM |
| Evenreven |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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I think the FWWM version is better, and a perfect choice. I love Chet Desmond. It makes perfect sense to me that Cooper takes over Desmond's case after he disappears. I can't even imagine Cooper in the Deer Meadow sheriff's office. There's a certain stoicism to the Desmond character that really works for the environment he finds himself in. Every time I watch FWWM, I want the Deer Meadow segment to go on and on. It ends after only 40 minutes or so, doesn't it? There's something hypnotic about the filth and drearyness of the place. Carl Rodd too. The despair of his voice when he talks about "more shit I gotta do now". That part is really unlike anything I've ever seen in film history. Deer Meadow is no Twin Peaks. Desmond is no Cooper. And that's the way it should be, at least to me.
To Colin: As you can imagine, I disagree strongly.
"What credit card do you want to put that on?" "Caash, prease."
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| 4. Friday, July 13, 2007 8:10 AM |
| ThisIsTheGirl |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 1/27/2006 Posts:373
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| QUOTE: Deer Meadow is no Twin Peaks. Desmond is no Cooper. And that's the way it should be, at least to me. | Well said. | QUOTE: Right, the film is at fault here, whereas the cheap tie-in novelization is what should be considered canon. |

Extremely well said!
Has he taken his eyes off it yet?
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| 5. Friday, July 13, 2007 8:48 AM |
| likeitsounds |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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LogicHat and ThisIsTheGirl, I wasn't suggesting that one is 'right' and the other 'wrong' - personally, FWWM is my favourite Lynch film - merely that because I'd read the book first it always jars that events are different in the film. I understand perfectly that actor involvement changes things - otherwise Cooper and Audrey would have got it on, allegedly - but I was just trying to put across my thoughts and at the same time raise what I felt could be an interesting topic of discussion. If I was wrong about that, I apologise.
"There is no need for medicine. I am not in pain."
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| 6. Friday, July 13, 2007 3:52 PM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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In Wrapped In Plastic #60, there is a 10 paqe essay that conclusively proves that the "deer meadow prologue" is Cooper dreaming himself as Desmond, remembering the investigation. It's very detailed and plausible.
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| 7. Friday, July 13, 2007 4:05 PM |
| LogicHat |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 12/19/2005 Posts:2335
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| QUOTE: If I was wrong about that, I apologise. |
No need to apologize, it's all interpretation anyways. I've heard of the FWWM dream theory, but it seems to cheapen the importance of those scenes. It's not like in Mulholland Drive, where the dream twist made us say "So that's why that happened". This theory seems more like, "Chet Desmond is no more important than something Coop thought up in his sleep". Then again, Chet's never mentioned again in the timeline of the show, so...
Logic Hat Online- logichat.org
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| 8. Friday, July 13, 2007 5:23 PM |
| alleyghost |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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| QUOTE: Then again, Chet's never mentioned again in the timeline of the show, so...
| So is Philip Jeffries, btw.
The sound wind makes through the pines. The sentience of animals. What we fear and what lies beyond the darkness.
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| 9. Friday, July 13, 2007 7:04 PM |
| JVSCant |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:2870
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In Wrapped In Plastic #60, there is a 10 paqe essay that conclusively proves that the "deer meadow prologue" is Cooper dreaming himself as Desmond, remembering the investigation. It's very detailed and plausible.
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Okay, the idea of that just seriously blew my mind. I've somehow managed to have never heard of or considered that theory before, as far as I can remember...

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| 10. Friday, July 13, 2007 8:56 PM |
| Gordon |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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I completely agree with Evenreven, nothing else to add... And BTW, we don't hear about Chet or Philip in the series, but we hear about Sam. I think that was a nice touch, creating a character in the film from a single comment in the Pilot. I guess the same thing can be said about Cliff...
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| 11. Friday, July 13, 2007 9:49 PM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 12/19/2005 Posts:4953
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QUOTE:In Wrapped In Plastic #60, there is a 10 paqe essay that conclusively proves that the "deer meadow prologue" is Cooper dreaming himself as Desmond, remembering the investigation. It's very detailed and plausible.
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Okay, the idea of that just seriously blew my mind. I've somehow managed to have never heard of or considered that theory before, as far as I can remember... |
Yes! Mine too, but now I can't watch it and think "Desmond isn't real." It even explains the Jeffries scene to make MUCH more sense (unfortunately, I don't have my copy at my new home so I can't summarize it.)
But yeah. Desmond's character was originally scripted as Cooper, but when Kyle backed out of the role, minor tweaking was done... All in all, it works.
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| 12. Sunday, July 15, 2007 12:08 AM |
| 3519273540 |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 4/24/2007 Posts:91
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If FWWM weren't filled with brilliant imagery, it might be one of the worst movies I've ever seen. The plot is incoherent at best. I love it though, for all it's messiness.
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| 13. Monday, July 16, 2007 6:19 AM |
| Evenreven |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 12/5/2006 Posts:342
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QUOTE:In Wrapped In Plastic #60, there is a 10 paqe essay that conclusively proves that the "deer meadow prologue" is Cooper dreaming himself as Desmond, remembering the investigation. It's very detailed and plausible.
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Conclusively? I have heard of this theory before, but, alas, I don't have the WIP issue. Can someone provide a short version? Is Cooper's appearance at the trailer park a part of the dream?
"What credit card do you want to put that on?" "Caash, prease."
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| 14. Monday, July 16, 2007 12:03 PM |
| alleyghost |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 6/10/2007 Posts:100
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Well even with that, it could only be one more fishy theory in a sea of speculation. Still I'd be curious...
The sound wind makes through the pines. The sentience of animals. What we fear and what lies beyond the darkness.
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| 15. Monday, July 16, 2007 1:46 PM |
| T41PAN |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 12/20/2005 Posts:46
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Again Ive never read or even considered the Cooper dreaming Desmond theory before, and I neither have read or have access to the Wrapped in Plastic article so would really appreciate if someone could post a link or something as I am now fascinated by this 'new' twist'. I like it :)
Maybe she'll grow wings and join the circus.
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| 16. Monday, July 16, 2007 5:23 PM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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There's more than this, but I have to get back to work. Enjoy: From John Thorne’s Dreams of Deer Meadow, WIP 60 Aug 2002 (Paraphrased and quoted with respect)
Vision and Revision
Lynch/Engels Goal: FWWM was intended to be about the Dale Cooper investigation, BOB and Mike, and other characters from the show. FWWM had to be self contained and work within the framework of established facts of events prior to the series. It had to be integrated into the Laura Palmer story without adding too much new storyline/resolution. The investigation allowed Cooper to be in the film and part of Laura’s living world (and afterlife,) just as the TV show hinted in ep 2009 that they shared a dream that would trigger his intuition, and he would send an alarm to Laura (in which she receives his warning,) and he comforts her/shepherd her in the Red Room. Problems: this would have been three hours long- Kyle’s refusal to commit to his time also led to revisions. It was implied in the show that Cooper investigated the Banks murder, and The Autobiography if FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper- by sometimes Peaks script writer Scott Frost- has Cooper examining her body with a partner, meeting Cable, etc. With so few Cooper scenes, so why bother with the prologue? The first 30 min and Laura’s story feel separate, but…. The Dreams of Dale Cooper
Cooper is actually a dominant presence and Chet only seems to investigate. In the original script, Cooper has Desmond’s lines. In the working script, Desmond meets a mysterious fate and Coop is sent out, now a passive role. Just as he reworked the MD pilot in a feature, he adds critical dialogue and restructures the opening as Cooper’s dream. (It’s in character for Coop and supports Lynch’s fascination with dreams.) The dream has to be necessary and contribute to the story, or else it would be arbitrary. Purpose: Every dream element leads to Cooper’s better understanding of Teresa’s Owl Cave ring. His subconscious seeks answers while other being enter to aid him, and information gleaned will help with the Laura Palmer case. He can enter the Red Room world in dreams, and the random/confusing elements of the prologue can be solved. Part 1: Chet
Cooper dreams the real events of Teresa’s death and floating body. First Doubling: two secretaries at Gordon Cole’s, blonde and brunette, are symbols of aspects of a double personality. (There was only one in the original script.) The Chet dream is based on Cooper’s memory of his own experiences. Lynch was able to keep his original concept (both CD and DC have the same lines- and the same initials reversed.) Just as Cooper fails to solve the case in reality, so must his dream manifestation of himself. The blue rose is not in the original script. The blue rose is a figment of Cooper’s mind, meaning like a blue rose, the case is an impossibility. Desmond can’t explain the rose to Sam because Cooper doesn’t know what it means but recognizes it as a case involving the supernatural OR as a subconscious clue to “look beyond the rational.” Sam later asks if he’s “going back” for it. Cooper intuits the importance of understanding the missing ring in his dream, which could not be located in reality. When he (as Chet, who goes back to the trailer park for the rose) sees it on a mound of dirt (Laura’s necklace is also found on a mound of dirt) and reaches for it, he can’t “grasp” it. Second Doubling: The old man at Hap’s asks “Are you talking about that little girl that got murdered?” twice. (It was only asked once in the original script.) Meaning, Cooper is investigating Teresa’s death for a second time. Third Doubling: Sam repeats “We sure do need a good wake me up, don’t we Agent Desmond?” (in the script, Sam asks, “You really do like that coffee, don’t you Agent Cooper?”) Cooper may be trying to wake himself Then, the old woman, the phone pole/whooping noise (the Man From Another Place’s call from the pilot), and Carl Rodd says: “I’ve already gone places, I just want to stay where I am.” If Cooper awakens, Rodd will cease to exist. (This was a spontaneous improvisation that Lynch kept, as he sometimes does.) Cooper submits to the inevitable and abandons his dream persona but his dream continues. He enters (in Philadelphia) as soon as Chet disappears and tells Cole enigmatically “I’m worried today because of the dream I told you about.” A reference to the Deer Meadow dream? Fourth Doubling: Cooper sees himself on the closed circuit camera monitor, re-enacting his doubled presence in the Deer Meadow dream while not stating it explicitly to Cole. Part 2: Jeffries
Jeffries appears, walks past Cooper’s double, relates his experiences/, then disappears- this was changed radically from the original script to appear more dreamlike. This scene is too bizarre to reconcile with reality. In the script, Cooper’s double follows Jeffries into Cole’s office. After he says “it was a dream, we live inside a dream” Jeffries cries, “the ring, the ring.” Cole tries to call his intercom for a stenographer, “static begins to build and the fluorescent lights start to hum,” Cooper checks the hall for help and only Albert witnesses Jeffries disappear. (Wouldn’t Albert be less sarcastic about the existence of BOB in the series after witnessing this?) The we refers to Cooper, Cole, Albert and Jeffries. Jeffries asks “Who do you think this is there?” about Cooper. The answer is: the dreamer, or Jeffries knows Cooper has changed dream identities. Jeffries subjective experience of the Red Room (Lynch says it changes depending on whoever walks into it) is a sign that he’s an entity who has forced his way into Cooper’s subconscious mind. Lynch edits the scene as if Cooper’s mind is overloaded with information and struggling to process it. Jeffries supplies Cooper with crucial information (The Little Man says “with this ring, I thee wed,” also unscripted) that he is able to warn Laura with. The ring is deadly when taken from the Little Man. Part 3: Cooper
Cooper returns to the Fat Trout and intuitively looks at the space with the empty trailer, where Desmond found the ring, and sees “Let’s Rock” on the car (a line of the Little Man’s from the series.) The lines “sorry to wake you” and “I was having a bad dream anyway” were scripted for the earlier Chet scene, then moved to Cooper’s visit to emphasize the continuing dream of the prologue. Fifth Doubling: The last TWO previous tenants were Chalfont, just as Donna finds two Tremonds next to Harold’s in the series. Cooper awakens after his dictation to Diane.
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| 17. Monday, July 16, 2007 10:15 PM |
| alleyghost |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 6/10/2007 Posts:100
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Mmm, good. At least now it makes some kind of sense. I still don't know how or why Desmond "went back for the blue rose" and intuitively found the ring.
The sound wind makes through the pines. The sentience of animals. What we fear and what lies beyond the darkness.
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| 18. Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:22 AM |
| ThisIsTheGirl |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 1/27/2006 Posts:373
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QUOTE:Mmm, good. At least now it makes some kind of sense. I still don't know how or why Desmond "went back for the blue rose" and intuitively found the ring.
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When Sam says "you're going back for the Blue Rose" - I don't think it was meant literally, he just meant "the blue rose is the element of this case which I am not allowed to know about - you're going back because of this unknown element." So maybe Desmond, being privy to the information which was not revealed to Sam, had good reason to search for the ring.... | QUOTE: LogicHat and ThisIsTheGirl, I wasn't suggesting that one is 'right' and the other 'wrong' - personally, FWWM is my favourite Lynch film - merely that because I'd read the book first it always jars that events are different in the film. I understand perfectly that actor involvement changes things - otherwise Cooper and Audrey would have got it on, allegedly - but I was just trying to put across my thoughts and at the same time raise what I felt could be an interesting topic of discussion. If I was wrong about that, I apologise. |
I wasn't really commenting on what you wrote, so there's no need to apologise. I think Logic was mainly responding to what colin789 wrote.....I certainly was
Has he taken his eyes off it yet?
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| 19. Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:23 PM |
| JVSCant |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:2870
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Thanks for that, rainbow...

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| 20. Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:23 AM |
| Methedrome |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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Certainly an interesting theory. I would love to see the "original script" that is referenced in the WIP article, though.
Does anyone have a copy of it?
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| 21. Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:35 AM |
| DayLight |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 7/24/2007 Posts:17
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Try google.
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| 22. Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:31 AM |
| Methedrome |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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I thought the quotes made it quite clear I was seeking the "original script", not the working script which is readily available.
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| 23. Tuesday, July 24, 2007 12:26 PM |
| Methedrome |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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The point is, if the "original script" does contain the information, context, as described in the article and the differences from the "shooting script", it does make this theory seem plausible.
It is hard to accept this theory without having the "original script" to verify the author's assumptions and assertions.
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| 24. Wednesday, July 25, 2007 5:39 PM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
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It's all over the internet. By original, he meant that shooting script. http://corky.net/scripts/fwwm.html
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| 25. Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:46 AM |
| Methedrome |
RE: Teresa Banks' investigation - que? |
Member Since 4/7/2007 Posts:28
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No, this is not the script being referenced.
He refers to an "original script" that does not mention the Blue Rose and does not include Agent Desmond, but has Cooper with Desmond's lines.
This is not the widely circulated version.
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