I watched all of Twin Peaks again with my girlfriend. She hasn't seen it all before.

 She was disappointed with the ending and the general progress of the second season. We both agree that Tp became too far-fetched towards the end.

 I am still baffled as to what Lynch was attempting to create with the final episode.

 My general feeling is he was spoilt at the time and wasn't putting his creativity into it properly. The long scene in the bank, the return to the red room for scenes that don't really add up to much, it all seems forced and lacking in real creative inspiration. It was just a hack job. I've read people praising Lynch's work on the last episode to the skies and I just can't buy it.

  My girlfriend actually felt angry towards Lynch.

 I can't say I would have liked a forced happy ending. It's such a shame nothing has come of some form of wrap-up of TP  - it does feel incomplete. I can't feel overall that FWWM is a satisfactory final piece of work giving one a sense of a whole work. Somehow TP feels incomplete.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this. Where is Booth when you need him?

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

Vic, sorry I don't understand you.

Sorry. I shall try to blather on using big words and long sentences.

The fact that you consider the last episode to essentially be crap makes me wonder how in the hell you managed to stay a fan of the show? I'm also confused as to why you'd join a message board just to immediately make a negative comment about the series?

Now I'm not saying the show is perfect. Lord knows it's definitely not...Evelyn Marsh and Little Nicky are proof positive of that. But if you feel that the bank and red room scenes in the last episode were a waste of time, then I really feel bad for you. Those scenes are the cherries on top of a weirdly sophisticated sundae; they not only help to tie up a few loose ends (and dammit, made some new ones in the process!), they also encompass a part of Lynch's signature style as well as lend to the texture of the episode itself.

FWWM was never made to give the series any closure. I don't believe Lynch would ever definitively give TP closure no matter how badly we want it. It's just not how it should be. But that's beside the point. A prequel is never supposed to lend closure to anything...how could it? It's a PREQUEL. FWWM I think gave us a feeling of completeness...we may not know where Episode 29 is leading, but we now know where it's coming from. Having a peek into the last days of Laura's life provides enough fodder for our brains to chew on for three consecutive lifetimes.

I suggest rewatching the series and the film...but maybe check out a couple of Lynch's other films before you proceed. Since Lynch's fingerprints are all through the series, if you find you don't like his style, the show might not be for you. No harm done. It won't be the first time someone chose Seinfeld over Twin Peaks, and it certainly won't be the last.

Because dancing midgets and evil entities are so much more believable?

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

All I have to say is, IMHO, FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper is one of the neatest fictional characters ever created.  I remember being so sick to my stomach when I watched the last episode as it aired.  I was truly disturbed by the ending.

It was perfect.

I was frustrated when the series ended but that was fifteen years ago (gasp) and in a masochistic kind of way I've come to prefer the ambiguity to a more conventional ending. By the time Twin Peaks was cancelled there were too many loose ends to tie up in such a short space of time. DL has said that wasn't the ending, that's just the ending we were stuck with. I can understand why tp3 might find the final episode frustrating, even though I don't feel the same way. I love that final episode.

The final episode is one of the best IMO. I remember watching it for the first time on TV and being ready to jump out of my seat during all the red room scenes.

Obviously the cliffhanger ending sets it up so that there was room for a third series, and much as I'd love to see a third series, there's always the danger that the magic might have gone. (Compare with a show like X-Files which just kept going and going)

I also love the way characters who hadn't been in the series for ages (Ronnette, Sarah Palmer, Leland, MAddy, Sylvia Horne) all re-appear in the last episode.

 The characters and locations in the series are so strong that in my mind Twin Peaks was happening before we, the audience, arrived with Copper and is still going on right now. Stupid I know, but I also think a less ambigious ending would kill that feeling somewhat.

As for hackwork, the only bits that feel like hackwork are the cliched stuff like Nadine going back to school, the little Nicky saga and the Evelyn Marsh stuff - there's a million soap opera's with these sorts of story lines. If the Evelyn Marsh bits were developed with better characterisation and less obvious plotting it could have worked really well, but there isn't any attempt to rise beyond the cliche. Little Nicky on the other hand...

Exactly. And while we're at it, let's point out that Lynch was NOT responsible for or involved in those plotlines. Oh dear god, was he ever not.

I have to agree with the Evelyn thing. Had it not been approached so ridiculously, it could have been promising. But the Little Nicky thing...for Christ's sake...  ...although I could see bringing in a subplot about a bizarre, evil little kid somehow. Maybe as a new vessel for BOB. But not as some slapsticky sideshow where we get to act out how truly ridiculous the whole Dick-Lucy-Andy triangle is.

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

I agree with Amanda--why join if all you are going to do is be negative? This is supposed to be fun!! And that last episode...brilliance. IMO, those scenes are the stuff of Peaks legend. I will not lie and say I wasn't a sad panda when it was over and was royally bummed that there would be no more episodes--but those red room scenes are GOLD! I too feel sorry for you if you think that they were a waste of time--especially in the last episode--the dark, haunting weirdness was back in full force after the fuzzy plotlines involving Little Nicky and the Marsh wanker, which was just ill-timed.

The beauty of this show is that it left all of those open roads...places for us 15 YEARS LATER to still be discussing, having fun with...having a festival to celebrate the awesomeness of this gem of a show, whose brilliance continues to shine after all of these years.

How can Twin Peaks be TOO far fetched? Heck--bring on the weirdness! Lay it on uber-thick!! :)

Exactly! When Twin Peaks first aired, I had to tape it and watch it the next day as my dad couldn't stand it. However, I was allowed to watch the last episode when it was broadcast since we were going on a family holiday the next day... of course I spent the whole two weeks of the holiday trying to work out what happened and looking forward to watching it again when I got back.

That I'm still thinking about the series so many years down the line says a lot about the quality of the show - I would love a series to come along which captures my imagination so fully.

I think it's hilarious when people say stuff like, "I liked Twin Peaks except for all the weird stuff," or "I like Twin Peaks except that it didn't give me a shortcut to thinking."   It was all weird, open ended stuff that compelled you to think on your own.

I think what these people are really saying is they wanted to like Twin Peaks.  They wanted something surprsing and unique, but not too surprising and unique.  I'll paraphrase something Al Strobel said on the FWWM extras:  Seeing a Lynch film is like going to a museum and seeing an abstract art show when you were expecting Englsih landscapes. 

My boyfriend hates everything Lynch has done, but he has to admit that it's refreshing he encourages his audiences to interpret his work for themselves.  Like it or not, it's understood that it was deliberately left incomplete.  Hell, Lynch didn't even want the murder of Laura Palmer solved in the beginning. 

Twin Peaks is a road trip.  It's about the ride, and not about when you get out of the car at the end.
 

Yes, that sums it up nicely.

Well put 12rainbow. Some people do seem to want to like Twin Peaks then criticise it when it's not what they expected. I don't think fans attack these people for having an opinion (I hope not anyway) but because their opinions are often ill informed. I'm intrigued by the whole phenomenon of people watching a film or listening to an album and within minutes they're registered with message boards. The main reason I visit message boards is for news, and because I enjoy reading the opinions of my fellow Twin Peaks nerds! There are few things in life I'm so passionate about that I would go to the trouble of even registering with a message board. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but opinions are better received when people can see that serious thought had gone into it (ie more that a day or two). This isn't such a bad thread though. The initial post started a really interesting discussion about the last episode and the red room. When it comes to DL the only advice I would ever give is, watch it till you love it! People have such literal brains nowadays. I agree the lose ends have kept Twin Peaks alive. The X-Files strip-mined its own mythology and has left very little to be discussed by fans.  

Thanks for all the replies. Don't jump on me as ill-informed though. I would say I am. I watched the show in 1990/91 and I was translating some of my girlfriend's feelings in the original post. I was not referring to 'weirdness' as such, just the way that towards the end the Black Lodge storyline was relied upon. It was portrayed in a too literal manner at times, in my opinion. In the Owl cave map scenes and so forth. I prefer the BL being a dream place and not portrayed as a kind of land you can get through a time portal, although that isn't really suggested in the series.

I like how in the final episode Lynch shows Cooper going into the BL after Earle and Annie. Harry wouldn't be able to get in to the BL if he had tried to. It was suggested you had to be in the right spot at exactly the right time. The whole thing was highly reminiscent of the Picnic at Hanging Rock idea.

I love the understanding Wrapped In Plastic reached in issue 75 where the songs 'Who Knows where or When?" and "goodnight Eileen" (SORRY, should read 'Irene'...are delved into from FWWM. Both suggest a great open-endedness.

I also liked Catherine Coulson's interview where she says that Lynch has no definite plan with Twin Peaks or rules out going back into that world, save for the rights issues. However, I see other Lynch films as highly reminiscent of TP and Lynch has commented how films like MD and LH exist in the same world.

Interesting points tp3. In the Robert Engels interview published in Wrapped In Plastic he talks about how David Lynch saw the Red Room as a kind of metaphysical dream state whereas Mark Frost portrayed it as a place of manifest evil. Suspect that's why the depiction of the Red Room/Black Lodge shifts between the literal and the abstract. I also like the theory the Lodges are identical but the zebra pattern makes it difficult to discern whether it's a white floor with black stripes (White lodge) or a black floor with white stripes (Black lodge). I think I read that in the Michel Chion book? I didn't mind the literal Owl Cave stuff because I was excited about the lodge being accessible from the 'real' world.

I can't see how David Lynch could return to Twin Peaks after all these years. The cast are all so much older (or dead). It's been four years since the first season of Twin Peaks was released on DVD and rights issues have turned the second season release into a farce. God forbid the powers that be should be required to mobilise themselves for a new series - lol! As it stands I'd settle for a second season and those FWWM deleted scenes.

Whoa there, no one's jumping on you for being ill informed. (the song is Goodnight Irene, btw) We're just suggesting you missed the point if you did not find the finale so grand.

Just for clarification, in your first post your complaint was that season 2 was too far fetched. Now you're saying it was too literal.

Yes, sorry. Please excuse me if I am confused. I suppose eps. not directed by Lynch may have attempted weirdness in a too literal manner. I think that's what I was getting at.

 I definitely think the last ep. shows the BL/Red room as a psychological state, or a kind of conscious dreaming.

 When you consider the ideas in ep2022 beside Mulholland and Lost Highway you can see how Lynch has been absolutely consistent in investigating similar ideas or psychological states.

 It would seem a bit silly to consider Lynch returning to a straight-ahead continuation of the series of Twin Peaks. Yes, of course the cast are older now, as is Lynch! You can see with FWWM there was never really an intention of a continuation in any dull way.

 If the name 'Twin Peaks' is held by rights by some company or other that's a good thing perhaps! I suppose with Lynch's Lumberton and Ghostwood tales I think he has a real niche or feeling for that area. We'll have to see how INLAND EMPIRE develops or explores any areas we may be able to relate to TP or any other works of his. I wouldn't think a project named Twin Peaks - A New Generation (!) would be of any use, it would have to go under a new name but be related in some way to a woodsy, misty place. Maybe INLAND EMPIRE might be that way inclined, involving a 'woman in trouble' but maybe not. I'm sure it will be brilliant whatever way. I am very glad to hear of Lynch's love of digital and its freedom.

Ok, lots of people were angry that it wasn't wrapped up at the end of Season 2 and in FWWM. Some didn't even stick it out after Season 1. Ratings went down. Critics trashed the movie. Yours isn't a new opinion.  (EDIT: but you aren't going to find many, if any, who agree with you here.)  

And you can look for similar themes elsewhere, but at the end of the day you have to admit Twin Peaks stands alone and Lynch/Frost have moved on.

I think it's safe to say Twin Peaks is over tp3. If there'd been more (or should I say any) support for Fire Walk With Me it would most likely have continued. Thinking about the way critics and so called fans reacted to the film never fails to send me into a fit of rage but after all this time I for one would rather they left Twin Peaks alone. DL's other work might explore similar themes but for me they have nothing to do with Twin Peaks. Or each other, for that matter. They all have their own unique mood and texture. Maybe even their own reality.

With hindsight it probably wasn't a good idea to start the thread with a scathing critique of the last episode (lol!) because for many people (myself included) it's incredible. But I get what you're saying about the treatment of the Lodge/Red Room. When it came to directing the final episode DL discarded the script that had been written (by Robert Engels, I think) because its treatment of the Lodge was all wrong. Regardless of whether you(r girlfriend) like(s) it or not it is a (strangely) perfect conclusion to the series. I suspect my friends don't like FWWM but it's enough for me to know they live in fear of the day I find out! And they've put up with fourteen years of me babbling about it, so they deserve a medal. Come to think of it have you considered that it might not be Twin Peaks that's at fault but your girlfriend? Lol!

I will back up tp3 here, perhaps surprisingly.

While personally I used to consider Ep.29 to be the absolute best of the series, and it still would have a place in the top 5, I think I understand what someone can have against it. Someone, who enjoyed the first 16 episodes all right!

For 16 episodes after the Pilot the supernatural universe in Twin Peaks served showing the drama of ordinary people, who were not supernatural entities (even if they were connected to them). As a conclusion - all the supernaturality was fitted perfectly within the logics of drama, only adding a new level to it. The supernatural was REAL but also - closely tied to the "reality". 

Then, after Leland's death, all the supernatural is lost... for loong. It kind of comes back when we move towards Project Blue book etc., but I feel this is more an X-files kind of supernaturality than what we had before.

The last episode suddenly brings it back - right as it used to be! Fantastic! Wonderful! They're all back, The Giant and the Red Room, and BOB smelling with Scorched Engine Oil. I loved it and the moment when I realised that the last episode brings it all back was for me a moment of unforgettable excitement when I first watched it.

Now, I shouldn't be saying was all the time, I still love it. But at the same time I must admit that the sudden come back of the old friends was a bit like.. taken out of a hat... ;-)
One could say - it wasn't prepared well enough. All supernatural that took place before Ep.16 always fitted perfectly to the whole context.

And here, well, I can easily imagine a person disappointed with the previous 12 episodes bringing our expectations down (one has the right to be disappointed, let's admit it) who then suddenly sees that they're trying to act as if nothing like that happened, as if we're still in the middle of the most challenging show, endlessly rich with spiritual meanings... HMM.
The Lodge sequence is splendid in itself but is it still so well placed within the context of what I called "drama of ordinary people"? I don't think so. It looks quite as if it was done for its own sake, not to be a part of the drama.

See what I mean? It worked for me but I can well understand someone who'd find it too hasty, too loosely connected to the rest of the story, and moreover - why does actually Cooper fail? I've never heard a good explanation myself (except for: why not? ;-)). Before Ep.16 all the supernatural actions were very well grounded and well, logical. In the last episode... another HMM from me :-)

Bobi 1 Kenobi

B. Beware
O. Of
B. BOB 

I think my girlfriend is responding quite freshly to TP and without any fawning love of Lynch so I trust her response. She was keen to watch the whole thing again, so she must have loved it in a sense. She has seen FWWM but can't remember a lot of it because she was so scared of seeing BOB.

 Well, Frost has moved on for certain. He's written a book about golfing, one I won't be rushing out to read in a hurry! Only kidding. Anyway, many writers were involved with TP.

Of course Lynch has moved on as such. Time has passed, its inevitable. But MULHOLLAND DR. was highly reminiscent of TWIN PEAKS. If it had been set in a woodsy town, which would have been impossible in terms of the story being related directly to HollyWOOD (!), it would have been even more akin to TP.

It was interesting how Lynch paid a visit to such small-town communities in Twin Peaks and Blue Velvet between 1986 and 1992. BV, TP and TP:FWWM all occur inside such places. Small American towns with a mysterious atmosphere.

Again, in MULHOLLAND DR. there's the diner, the monstrous bum character very similar to BOB, the confusing dual personalities that mingle with each other. The dream reality of MD carries on very closely with the same kind of 'reality' projected in FWWM and Lost Highway.

Then of course THE STRAIGHT STORY had more of the small-town feel.

I'd agree with the previous post very much about ep. 2022. The supernatural/psychological elements do come at you full barrell whereas in the episodes prior to this they are very much only suggested quite mildly. I suppose any feelings of sadness are only that the show had got back up to speed again and had reached a great level of suspense and intrigue with that episode only for nothing to come after it as such.

Of course FWWM did and I love that film. The smashing of the tv set at the beginning is perhaps all you need to know about the ABC series of TP and possibly how Lynch felt about it.

I think the manifestation of BOB in Cooper is evidence that even someone who is seemingly perfect can be corrupted or imperfect. Cooper mentions how his life has been solitary and cold, but now that he has found love and warmth something bad happens. It may seem negative but its only one side of Cooper.

I'm not really a new member, I used to be James_Bob_Owls_Roadhouse and then another name on this new board but I forgot the name and password so I signed up again.

I was watching FWWM again and the scene that starts with the high angle shot of the red curtains, coming from Laura staring up at the fan above the stairs, then dissolves through the red curtain shot into Cooper talking about his premonition shows one thing that could be seen as a problem with FWWM. As the shot dissolves in you can see Coop's mouth moving, showing he is already in conversation with Albert. Whilst this conveys a good feeling that his talk with Albert is going on whilst Laura is going about her daily life, it does show how the film was made from 5 hours plus of material. If you know that so much material was shot, it is showcased in that scene by the nature of the edit.