Susan, yes health care choices do factor into my decision on where I work NOW that I have that luxury. I have a full blown career and consider myself upper middle class now. In my twenties when I was attending college part time, doing internships, and working hard at various jobs to get a career started I had little choice and sometimes no insurance. I could barely pay the rent much less my own health insurance, but I was working hard towards a future. I would have loved a government option at that time in my life. I had even served in the military for several years and couldn't get a gov option after I became inactive which seemed insane to me. (I think there are better options now through the VA) FYI, I considered my gov paid healthcare quite good while serving in the military.

With no insurance I was totally scared away from even stepping foot into a hospital or seeing a doctor unless it was life or death. Not a good idea looking back since serious problems are usually treated best early on.

I think there is a common misconception that most who benefit from government health care are fat, lazy, welfare recipients with 5 kids who just want to leech of the system. In reality there are lots of hard working Americans struggling to make a career for themselves that are forced to go uninsured.

There is another side to my argument I've kept to myself because I know I'll get blasted. Personally speaking it comes down to a to a moral choice for myself. On this issue I am willing to sacrifice what I have so others can benefit. And no, I'm not saying people who want to keep what they have are greedy, evil, etc. I just personally feel that health care should be a basic human right for Americans who pay taxes. Look, I'm upper middle class, I like the capitalist society, the stock market, and making money. At the same time I understand to keep my quality of life there will always be a large percentage of citizens considered lower class who will remain uninsured. The least I can do for a country I say I love is to help provide the population with some affordable insurance option. This doesn't mean I'm a total socialist commie :) With the way our society works I don't really see many other realistic option other than some type of gov assistance.

I understand some of the arguments from the other side and there are some good points made. I won't beat the dead horse any longer as my personal feelings remain the same. I don't think you have to worry as the health reform bill will probably die and we won't hear about it again until the next election anyway. To bad the ALL or NO gov option seems to be the consensus.

R_Flagg

And we can blame Washington for that. They don't understand middle of the road. It's all or nothing which is a shame.

Jordan .

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Ewww, that was some scary stuff, Booth!  Rachel getting all anti-corporate corporatey while repeating the term "conspiracy theory" through her smug twisted smirk.  And the "commie" word, like that's used so often these days.

Well, you can guess how I feel about it.  I did notice she didn't have anything enlightening to add to the discussion of the Really Really Big Plan.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

assuming this article is correct , how would govt run health care fix some of the items in this article?

Too many tests equals over 200 billion alone. The only true way to limit tests is to LIMIT tests - thus your health care. I agree - i think sometimes doctors run too many tests and repeat tests (sometimes necessary). Reducing malpractice lawsuits IMO would help this while also at the same time not reducing your need for health care.

another 200 billion for claim forms - those won't be disappearing and probably will only get worse with the beaucracy of govt. At least they would be standardize - but that is something you could also do to private insurers without doing a full out govt run health care.

using ER as a clinic - that's a behavior change - harder to change, so govt can't fix that unless you ration. People who actually pay for their medical care don't usually do this type of thing because they understand the cost. I am guessing that with govt run insurance, you'll see an increase in this.

going back to the hospital - the suggestion is to penalize the hospital for re-admitting a patient within 30 days of being in the hospital - uh, anyone see a problem with this?!

medical oops errors - that would be potentially fixed through digitizing health records - already being planned and should've been done YEARS AGO (Newt and Hillary were pushing for this several years ago)

Jordan .

Did anyone else cringe when you read that from Obama today? Did he just admit that UPS and FedEx (private companies) do it better than the Post Office (govt run) while trying to argue that private insurance won't vanish.

Jordan .

Bleep you, & bleep the establishment, and bleep all of you who are trying to make me part of the unestablished establishment.

Booth that was about as funny as the last video.  With the same know it all smugness.  Notice that there was NADA in that little attempt at humor that set the record straight.  As if Jon Stewart knows what the straight record is on the House bill.  Or the proposed Senate bill.  Whadda pitiful mess and what pitiful distortions with an audience of clapping sychophantic seals.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Why would a nice boy like you want to torture me, Booth?  I told you I just watched MSNBC this very morning.  I am not so masochistic to move on (dot org...) to more snarkiness already when it's not even noon.  I'm going to shower and wash my hair.  Maybe later. 

Susan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Cohn

Figures, he would be Jewish, right?

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Protesters demand justice for man injured at health care town hall

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Not stupid, but a lot of Americans are self indulgent, short sighted, and mis-informed. Most of what I hear from the right at these shouting matches are talking points from the likes of Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, and Rush Limbo which really turns me off to the real discussions the right has to offer. I doubt many people at these town halls have read the health care bill or really have the straight record on it either. 

I'd just like to see civil intellectual debates on this issue. Like we do here at the gazette

It does seem like yesterday that FOX commentators were going on about how angry and hatefull the left has become. Oh and anti-American for speaking their mind. God bless this country.

R_Flagg

I think both Michael Medved and Dennis Prager have had very informative shows on the health care debate.  I only wish they had TV shows in addition to radio but the reason they do not is because they are not Shouting Heads. For every Glenn Beck and whoever else you mention, RFlagg, there is a ranting, smirking Rachel Maddow, Jon Stewart, Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, etc., etc.  There is only one FoxNews Cable tv show along with talk radio.  I would think that the numbers of sources promulgating the Obama Mystery Health Care Trust Me package is far greater by comparison.  And I really haven't heard the kind of detail that I require from the side attempting this sea change.

Both Medved and Prager's radio shows today focused on what the present bill would mean to employers.  I think they said the figure is something like 90% of the US insured are insured through their work.  The government does not tax employees for that benefit which equates to an estimated $12,000 per person annually.  With a government insurance option, it is most likely that the employers will dump their employees into the state pool thereby eliminating that promise of "If you like your insurance plan, you may keep your insurance plan."  Not if it doesn't exist.  The undercutting of the insurance BUSINESS's rates would also follow thereby with the likelihood of eliminating more of the US businesses -- insurance.  Some may say, "Great!"  But what about the promise of keeping that private insurance plan you like. 

Additionally when you hear the oft repeated stat of 47 Million uninsured, they said that about a third of those are undocumented aliens.  (or whatever you wish to call them)  Another third are covered by Medicaid or Medicare or Disability.  The last third includes those who opt not to buy insurance for whatever reasons they may have.  The vast majority of Americans are pleased with their coverage and in fact that percentage (I think it was 78% a month or so ago) has gone up to the 80 percentile when those same people began looking at the new proposals.  Hence the distrust.

Anyway, those programs were very interesting but will the kind of complex info dispensed today siphon down with enough clarity to interest enough people to matter?   Time will tell.

Susan

PS Just read this.  Ridiculous?

CNN bans talk radio hosts

Several websites, including TVNewser, The National Review, and NewsBusters, reported this week that CNN/US president Jonathan Klein has banned some talk radio hosts from his cable news channel. In an editorial meeting Tuesday, Klein directed his producers to refrain from scheduling talk radio hosts, in part because the hosts’ comments are “all too predictable.” Klein was quoted apparently slamming some of the talk radio hosts CNN has booked, saying “complex issues require world class reporting,” inferring that those hosts aren’t “world class.”

Some prominent CNN figures host daily radio shows, among them host Lou Dobbs, apparently exempt from the ban. Others presumably exempt are regular political commentators and radio hosts Bill Bennett and Roland Martin.

Seemingly subject to the ban is Michael Medved, whose nationally syndicated radio show is based at Bonneville’s KTTH in Seattle. Medved has commented on issues for CNN, and previously delivered weekly movie reviews for the channel. Medved carries impeccable credentials. As a National Merit Scholar, he entered Yale at the age of 16 and later attended Yale Law School, where he befriended Hillary Clinton. Medved was a prominent speechwriter and consultant for liberal political candidates before describing his shift to more conservative values in some of the dozen books he’s written. Medved’s radio show is heard in more than 200 markets and reaches an estimated 4 million people a week. His bona fides have been good enough to get him on with CNN’s Larry King, Oprah and Letterman, among many others.

Dobbs, on the other hand, has drawn a barrage of criticism to CNN over his comments on claims by so-called “birthers” that President Obama isn’t eligible to hold his office because he wasn’t born in the US. Dobbs has continued to express doubt over Obama’s citizenship status on TV and radio despite the fact that a fill-in host on his own CNN show had debunked the birthers’ claims. Dobbs even continued to press the issue on CNN after Klein had declared the controversy “dead.”

For his part, Medved has been quoted as calling the birthers “crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters,” and “the worst enemy of the conservative movement.” He added, “It makes us look weird. It makes us look crazy. It makes us look demented. It makes us look sick, troubled, and not suitable for civilized company.”

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

I doubt supporters and all our politicians have read it either. What's the point?

Susan makes a valid point that even the supporters aren't using any real logic to get it done. All you pretty much hear is that "it needs to be done", "other developed countries have it", etc. Those aren't arguments to do something - esp something so drastic that will effect every single living person from here on out.

Susan is right - employers will more than likely drop health benefits - it will start with small business and work its way up. The only companies who might keep it are big corporations and only for high paying executives. The problem of course is that as you drop insurers from the rolls, premiums are going to go up, and enough folks drop, insurance companies will be forced to drop and in 20 years or so, everyone will have to be in the public option, minus politicians and the rich. Talk about the rich getting richer....

It's like killing poison ivy. There's only 2 ways to get rid of poison ivy for good (poison often won't do it) - pull it out or let the grass grow thick so that it chokes it out. Public health care will do the latter. Obama is right - public health care won't directly take away private health care. But in time, there's a good chance (but not a sure thing) it will.

The positive side of it is that it will force private insurers to improve to compete against hte public option, and hopefully improve. But when you have the govt regulating costs, health care, etc. it's going to be tough. That's the only silver lining I can see, but I'm worried that this will not be the result because of the govt control.

In time - well after Obama is gone, and probably as many of us enter our retiring years - we'll see private insurance disappear.

Susan - I also think that 47 million includes people between jobs, and once they get a job, they aren't officially removed from that number. And they may only be without insurance for a couple of months (on average). I'm sure lately, it's not the case.

Jordan .

Here's a Census Bureau chart I found a couple days ago.  It gives you percentages and number but in a very general sense.

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Jordan .

Jordan .

Once again, I say...

JORDAN FOR PRESIDENT!

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Drudge: TEAM OBAMA DROPS PUBLIC OPTION

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

Jordan .