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Twin Peaks & FWWM > Was Laura in the Black Lodge after she was killed?
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1. Sunday, July 3, 2011 5:36 PM
Laura Was Laura in the Black Lodge after she was killed?


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I watched FWWM for the first time recently, and was curious as to why Laura (the real Laura, not her doppelganger,) was in the Black Lodge with Cooper right after she was killed before transitioning to the White Lodge.

I know that Laura, Maddie, Cooper and a few others have evil doppelgangers in the Black Lodge, is that because they were killed (or in Cooper's case, trapped,) by the Lodge's inhabitants? 


Love, Laura
 
2. Monday, July 4, 2011 1:20 AM
waldo the bird RE: Was Laura in the Black Lodge after she was killed?


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hi laura!

i think laura was in the black lodge because she inherited some things from leland, wasn't able to free herself from that completely and, the older she became, the less she could fight the ever-growing pressure of the pov the outside world must have had (according to her own thoughts) about her and her behavior (which was ultimatively caused by the things inherited from leland). i don't think the black lodge is a place to which one is send in order to be punished, though there are some inhabitants about whom this could be said. i think the black lodge is a certain view upon the world and laura shared that view.

and the doppelgangers ... like i said, i think the black lodge is a certain view upon the world. and when someone (A) has that kind of view (is in the black lodge) and looks at a certain (any) person (B), A cannot decide, what B is. is B B or is B doppelganger(B)? that would then be shown in tp as doppelgangers, who appear in the black lodge and confound A. also i think that the same goes for A looking at himself (can't decide A=A or A=doppelganger(A)? (in another words: am i evil or not?)) another aspect of the doppelganger would be ... hawk states one time that the black lodge was the shadow-self of the white lodge ... i guess shadow means here, in the 1st place, image, impression of something, a deed, especially a spoken one. it's when you lose believe in truth (that includes that from your pov no one can be true, even if they wanted to) and only scan language looking for some kind of manipulation, when all words become meaningless and what remains is but a collection of worthless tokens of might. and when you then try to form a big picture out of that language theory ... since you recently saw fwwm: i take the scene with the  6 and those wires at the trailer park and the part with "i am the arm and i sound like" & indian-whooping sound as images pertaining to this "all language is manipulation"-sphere.

i think that laura was in the black lodge passively (=just had the black lodge pov), while coop enters the lodge in EP29 passively and self-consciously, self-aware (don't know a better word right now). the appearing doppelgangers you mentioned are things that coop sees, it's a visual description of coop's thoughts. yet these doppelgangers have something to do with being killed by lodge inhabitants, though it's in my opinion a bit pleonastic, since entering the black lodge IS the same as being killed by the lodge inhabitants. so when cooper enters the black lodge, he is killed (spiritually) by the lodge inhabitants; and inside the black lodge he thinks some stuff about laura, maddie, himself and all the other characters that appear. and because it's his thoughts and because he is killed (spiritually) (temporally?) and because there is a bondage between the thinker and the object thought about, one could say that the evil doppelgangers are there because they were killed by the lodge's inhabitants.

but of course, that's only one pov and there are many around, especially on the topic you chose

and ... um ... now i wonder whether i got your first question right: you're referring to the scene with the angel right before the end? ... another approach would be: it's for the viewer. since it's basically a princess and dragon story and the task it gives the viewer is to free laura from the black lodge ...?

well, there are so many aspects and layers to the show and especially the red room scenes ...

i could also tell you my most recent approach on the owl ring, which would be able to set her last diary entries, her death (be it literally or metaphorically) and her stop in the black lodge in sync. the twisted owl ring would be equal to the black lodge pov. and laura taking it would mean: she accepts the black lodge pov as the only pov that is. and in such a world leland must have been liable to warn her, but he didn't. so she has a manifest reason to fend him and everything he represents off. and she would die, either way, spiritually anyway (temporally?) (could she get out there on her own or does she need coop? dunno.), but also a motive for a literal murder would be made possible by this thesis. so laura taking the owl ring would be a legitimate but errant attempt of laura to fend off leland and escape the world she slowly slipped into, she would finally have a new centre of orientation and could explain herself and her innocence to herself. yet it would be errant and she dies (because black lodge pov is death).

and you wrote, you just saw fwwm for the first time ... i can't quite assess whether my answer is appropriate to this ...? though i think i nearly instantly interpreted the incubus-scene as a metaphor and not an allusion to literal incest. but it took quite a while until i first thought that the death of laura palmer was more a spiritual death, less a corporeal. well, anyway, if you read this once and now are at this line, in case you totally didn't like what i wrote, you'd soon forget it if you wouldn't read it a second time, so i didn't harm your puzzle-on-your-own-ability. (i'm quite fond of my theses, you know.)

i guess, you could get an explanation a lot easier if you just took the incest-scene literally. but i don't do. i guess most do, though. well, hope you found anything of worth to you.

and, at last, i want to emphasize that this is mostly not deduced from the show, comes more from my fantasy.


phantom / ghost : open book in a dead language, a blush, far from the madding crown, willow
 
3. Tuesday, July 5, 2011 3:59 AM
LODGE4 RE: Was Laura in the Black Lodge after she was killed?


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She wasn't in the Black Lodge - she was in the waiting room.

 
4. Wednesday, July 6, 2011 2:15 AM
waldo the bird RE: Was Laura in the Black Lodge after she was killed?


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i thought the black lodge was the waiting room in which you wait for transition to white lodge. like hell/purgatory is not the real thing, you know.

and in my post above i've said the show had so many layers. that was wrong. right would've been: human consciousness has so many layers and none of them are repelled by the show. have i ever mentioned that "lynchian" could imo well be replaced by "mythological"? or maybe by "what comes around when someone watches a mythological film as if it was a film about actual persons doing actual-person's-stuff"?


phantom / ghost : open book in a dead language, a blush, far from the madding crown, willow
 
5. Wednesday, July 6, 2011 3:22 AM
LODGE4 RE: Was Laura in the Black Lodge after she was killed?


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How could a White Lodge Angel be in The Black Lodge ? The waiting room is the waiting room to determine which Lodge you end up in - We saw part of The Black Lodge in Laura's dream when she entered the painting given her by Mrs. Tremond. We never saw The White Lodge except for that bright white light when Laura was taken there.

 
6. Wednesday, July 6, 2011 5:02 AM
waldo the bird RE: Was Laura in the Black Lodge after she was killed?


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but hawk says

 "there is also a legend of a place called the black lodge, the shadow-self of the white lodge. the legend says that every spirit must pass through there on the way to perfection. there, you will meet your own shadow-self. my people call it the dweller on the threshold ... but it is said, if you confront the black lodge with imperfect courage, it will utterly annihilate your soul."

so if it was the waiting room and in that waiting room it would be decided where you end up and if that ending up would be permanent and irrevocable: how do you pass through there (the black lodge)?

EDIT so, ok, what you mean or what the things you're saying mean is: (i'm translating that tp-stuff to me in that manner, what can i do) red room = waiting room = purgatory and then there would be another room somewhere, the actual black lodge = hell. ok. but afaik purgatory and hell are very much the same, just purgatory is the name for place A if you can get out and hell is the name for place A if you can't get out (on your own or anyway, don't know exactly).

anyway, my answer to the question (topic) would remain the same. since the question is not so much about whether laura is in the black lodge or the waiting room, but whether laura is in a very dark, uncomfortable, haunted and horrific space or not before coop & angel appear. so my answer to that question is still: yes.


phantom / ghost : open book in a dead language, a blush, far from the madding crown, willow
 

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