Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Jesus made it clear that rasing the dead is part of the gospel.

NT also says: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Jordan .

I'll be honest with you Kevin, I'm a christian, and I honestly find the whole raising of the dead thing a little fishy.

First off, there would be TONS of information on the mainstream media about this. But there isn't. The articles that you do find, even people don't wholeheartdlly believe either. There isn't any proof with it. You'd think that after they've been "raised from the dead" that they would do a story or so about them and talk to them, and so forth, but you find nothing of that sort.

I'm a believer. I have faith. But this is just odd in my eyes. It's just fishy is all.

And why do these revivials always seem to happen in FL??? Do you think that GOD only wants people in FL saved? Does God want everyone to flock to FL? I doubt it. What is mostly makes up the population in FL? Our seniors, and they are a bit gullable for things like this. God knows, I'll probably turn out the same when I get old.

I think if he really wants to reach out to people as much as he says he wants to do, then he (and others) should take it around the country and around the world. FL is not the only place where people need to be saved.

I have my doubts about Todd Bentley anyway.

Kelly

How Do You Live Your Dash?

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First off I will address Jordon.  The scripture that you quoted says to test the spirit to see if it is of God.  And right below it it then goes on to say that  if the person says that Jesus came as a human being that person has the Spirit of God.  Below that it talks about love.  That Christians are suppose to walk in love. 

Well, out of the fruit of the lakeland revival people have been healed, set free from addictions, raised from the dead, etc...  And they have a desire to seek and worship God.  The fruit that seems to come out of those who  have opposed the revival from what I have seen has been hatred, telling people they are going to hell for playing a part in it, calling Todd Bentley a mystic from India or an alien (kind of sounds like a Twin Peaks show, LOL) saying it is a false gospel because it's focus has been on love and not hell.

You will have to email them for proof.  I am not sure if you will get an answer because they get thousands of emails a day www.freshfire.ca  They say they can document every person that has been raised from  the dead and have challenged all media to come.  They are open to be investigated by the Media.  They have invited movie stars, Oprah, Bill O Riley, CNN, NBC etc...  The media did look through the finances.  I think they was hoping to find something there, because of what has happened with the Word Of Faith movement.  But they have found that Todd and his ministry isn't really making much off this revival.  He is living by modest means compared to the amount of money that has come into his ministry, not because of the revival, but because of the money that has come through his ministry over the years.  A lot more goes out then comes in.

The revival has broke out in other areas.  It just has not gotten as much attention.  There is a revival taking place in GA now.  It is now beginning to take off.  Two students from North Caroline went to the revival and revival has broke out there.  It has also broke out in Europe.  And in the past revivals were not just in FL but in Toronto as well.  And if you look at the people who are at the revival on God TV,  it isn't just old people but all ages.  Anyway, hope this helps.  God Bless, Kevin 

Outside of the revival, Kev, have you looked into any of Todd's beliefs? Have you watched his testimony regarding his Seattle experience? Have you read his experience with the "Third Heaven"? I know you know your Bible, so if you have, does any of his beliefs/ideas strike you as odd or just not quite right? That something just doesn't feel right? It is critical that we have church leaders who are theologically sound.

First time I heard about this revival is when you posted on the board, and then my dad mentioned it to me later, and it was then I started doing some minor research on Todd -- not on the revival itself but on him. I'm not saying that this revival is not of God, but for me, a person who grew up in a charasmatic church, but smething doesn't feel right to me as I've looked closer at Todd's belief -- not what people are saying he says, but what he actually says. His focus on angels (which NT warns about), his experiences and testimonies just don't feel right to me.

In everything I have read and seen of him, something has continually struck me as wrong with his belief system. and the Bible tells us to test the spirits, and that sometimes means testing our brethern's words and beliefs.

God can use any person who has the right heart, and God can even bless people who get caught up in questionable theology. As someone who grew up in the Charasmatic environemtn, I've watched people take advantage of the movement. I watched church-goers get so caught up emotionally that they become blinded by actual truths.

I've had no issues with many of the other recent movements - Rodney Howard Browne, Toronto Blessing, etc. In the end, Todd's beliefs just hit me wrong. He may very well be of God, but something doesn't feel right for me. and it's important that all Christians and believers have to be cautious with any new outpouring and not just grab hold of something new and exciting.

BTW - Bentley isn't mentioned here but here's one of the raised from the dead stories from a news outlet. Kelly and i talked baout this, and it's posisble for your skin to become hard before actually dying which is not rigor mortis. Interesting that at least in the 2 or 3 cases I've been able to hear about regarding people being raised from the dead, paramedics were either there working on the person OR they were on life support and on death's door with no brain activity. Raised from the dead or miraculous healings? There's a huge difference, and just because there's "no brain activity" doesn't mean a person is "dead." I'm still trying to find a "Lazarus story" in which there's no question the person was truly dead and not being worked on medically or being kept alive by a machine.

Jordan .

I know about Todd's beliefs.  I have known about Todd's ministry way before this revival.  I am not saying I agree with everything he says or believes.  But God has used other people in my life who are Christians and some who are not and I have not been in agreement with them, but God still chose to use them.  The angel thing does not really bother me, because I have had encounters with both angels and demons  myself. 

We are not to worship angels and or accept a different gospel if an angel tries to give us one.  But not to fear angels themselves.  But I understand some of your concerns about the raising of dead and about some of the Kingdom and Supernatural stuff.  Anyway, God Bless, Kevin

Kev - i'm assuming you've heard the latest?? Do you still feel Lakeland was a true revival or something else?

http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1348_test_revival_with_doctrine/

http://fireinmybones.com/

Jordan .

Yes, I still believe it was/is a true revival.  A revival can last a day or a week, a month or a year.  Just like I believe the voice of healing was a true revival.  Even though many in the voice of healing got off into some weird stuff.  Just like I believe David was a man after God's own heart even though he slept with Bathsheba.  Just like I believe that Paul Cain is a man of God after he slept with a young man. 

I am really the wrong person to talk to about this if you expect me to point fingers. Because I try to fall on the side of grace.  Yes, people reap what they sow.  But if Todd repented today, I feel like he should be able to go out and preach tommerow.  I mean you are talking to someone (me) who goes into to strip clubs to witness to people, LOL.

The only time I think someone should be removed from ministry is if they are killing someone or if they are molesting children.  Then they should go to jail.  I felt the same way about Clinton.  I didn't think he should be impeached because he fooled around.  Yes, you reap what you sow and it is hurtful to the family of the people.  But God didn't remove David from being king when he did what he did with Bathsheba.

I am also not really big on a board of directors in ministry.  Because it was the board of directors who removed a friend of mine's pastor from a church.  The friend was a little boy and now has a world wide ministry.  The pastor was a man that raised him and took care of him.  He later developed a drinking problem.  Instead of coming to help him, and praying with him and helping him,  the board decided to take the church away from him and take the school away from him that he built. I have seen this happen other times with ministers as well.  So, I think a board of directors is the wrong model.  Which is why I will never be involved with one.  I am not saying that it is that way with Todd's ministry.  He may have people around him who care about him.  But Jim Bakker didn't with Jerry Falwell.

But I am sure because this happened many Christians will point the fingers instead of praying for Todd.  Even though they themselves have not lead one person to the Lord or have prayed for one sick person to be healed.  

I am not saying that there is nothing wrong with what Todd did, if he did it.  I would have to talk to him.  What I am saying though if he did and he repented then I would have no problem with him preaching today.   Just like Jesus didn't have any problem having Peter preach for him not long after he denied Him.

That is how I feel about it.  It is an interesting conversation though.  So, let's see how others think.  If someone is caught in sin how long do you think they should wait until they preach again?  How about politcal office?  How about movie stars?  

Trust me, I'm not pointing fingers either. But based on comments from Patricia King - there's more here than just an "emotional" affair with a woman. She actually blamed criticism of Bentley as the reason for his fall - so in other words, it's the fault of people who thought he was not of God. LOL!!

I was just curious what you thought. I spent some time the past couple of weeks following this closely and becoming more and more skeptical of his "ministry" as news has come out and seeing the fall out and other people now talking about it more.

Jordan .

What are your thoughts on Patricia King?

Here's some videos and the quote that King made

Jordan .

I like some of King's teachings, because I have experienced the Supernatural myself in many ways.  Some of the things I disagree with is the statement "we can't tolerate sin" etc...  I am not saying it is okay to sin.  But I think that is the problem with the Christian church in general.  You are not allowed to be a human.

I mean look in the past few years we have had Todd Bentley, Paula White, Juanita Bynum etc...  If you look at most serial killers they come from a strong Christian background.  When Lakeland was going on, most of the people that opposed it, I found to be very cruel and mean.  Marilyn Manson once said that he would not mind going to heaven if there wasn't so many assholes there.  He too came from a strong Christian background.

I think we have the message wrong.  I think the message that is being preached mostly is one of hate that produces serial killers, insanity and cruelity.  We make idols out of people only to spit on them when they (what we consider  fall)  It is a message disgused as love.  But our message really has been be holy by our standards.  

I think the message should be one of unconditional love.  The message should be you are loved and accepted by God and God wants to know you, instead of you must be holy, you must believe our doctrine or you are not saved or that you are going to go to hell.  

Even though Jay Bakker is controversal with some of his beliefs about hell and his beliefs about homosexuality.  I think his message is closer to the message that should be preached and that is simply that you are loved.  I know I have found that to be the biggest struggle that I have struggled with and most people I have met that have tasted God and that is after you taste someone so pure and holy, that He can look at you and say I see no fault in you.  I think that is what most people struggle with.  If you have tasted God.  If you have tasted church or relgion, you probably don't want anything to do with God and would like to run away from Him.  Because He is usaully protrayed as a Pimp.

Those are just some of my thoughts about it.  I know I have been guilty of judging others.  If you are around Christians or church long enough, you will.  Not unless you get around others then you see just how much God loves all people.  That is one of the reasons why I like hanging around this message board, because there is so much diversity that it challenges me to love others who may be totally different than I am.  And I do feel a close bond with the people on the boards.  God Bless, Kevin

MY DISCLAIMER: To all the so called apostles and prophets releasing their letter's and essays on the claims of moral failure of Todd Bentley in a abortive attempt to save face you may want to stop reading now. This is not written for you. Even if you do read this most likely you will never heed it because you have already taken the posture of judge and jury. If you did read any further I may become your enemy too lining your linear notes for upcoming sermons and treatises for "morality" and "unity".

Is it so easy to forget that in the trenches and fox holes of rabid ridicule and persecution that the greatest testimonies are made? Like Paul who suffered extreme judgment from his peers he emerged from the pit and prison of past failure and present persecution with this testimony, "At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge..." (2 Tim 4:16-17).

The house of cards that we currently call "apostolic and prophetic" is quickly imploding as the unsaved world watches in utter amazement. The Jesus of the Bible who flung Himself in the line of fire as stones of judgment were about to be hurled; who later stated boldly to that day's "revival alliances" and networks of ambitious and ostentatious, "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you..." You may want to stop reading now.

Heaven is not lined with "networks" and "prophetic clubs" that prophesy and prophesy and never come to any knowledge of the truth. Heaven is filled with trophies of grace that are marred and scarred with the sweat of great achievement and in the end, even in failure can claim as Samuel did in the Bible to do more in a few days, weeks or months than those faint hearted facile figures that stand on the sidelines of history never willing to engage and only criticize.

To the doom and gloom prophets who are shouting from the housetops (and YouTube), "I told you so! I was right!" You are left more wanting than them all. Rather than don sackcloth and ashes and discover what is truly apostolic and prophetic you have chosen the shallow guileful path that has no blood, sweat and tears. In the deep ruts of your insecurities and lack of true identity you hurl stones of rhetoric around the world wounding rather than warning.

Like Job's friends you stand just outside the circle peering in never able or willing to sit down in the dirt with them. Your cowardice and inability to truly love will be your undermining. Oh if we truly had an apostolic voice in the land that cried with Paul! "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren..." (Rom 9:3). Paul the Apostle knew what it meant to stand in the gap. We however have mastered the art of rebuke, arrogance and emulation.

If anything I pray this can be a small diversion from the religious witch hunting that is rampant in the Church today and is targeting my friend and brother Todd Bentley. If we have the liberty to do this to our own flesh and blood then what becomes of the poor pitiful world around us in our dire inability to love unconditionally? The bedraggled, decrepit, dilapidated are already dead in their tracks with their alternative appearances, repulsion of religion and complete utter disdain for our current Christianity. Church, it's about to pay up as the Great Judge stands at the door of our current crisis and collects His due,

"So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. (Matt 18:31-35).

I am still Todd Bentley's friend because the Bible says I should be, "A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity." (Prov 17:17). Unlike thousands if not millions of Christians that naively follow the ebb and tide of public opinion that can change as suddenly as the weather; God has instructed us to be radically different. Love is not a double barrel shotgun of accusation but rather a mighty shadow that covers a multitude of sin apparent or illusionary.

I am Todd's Bentley's friend because it is unpopular to be so now! Jesus loved the disdained and was drawn to the controversial. Even in their apparent sin or demise He stooped in the ground and wrote untold secrets as the religious elite and self proclaimed apostles ranted and raved "according to the law". What we have now is a mad dash to distance ourselves from the back lash. Jesus never ran, He took the blunt of religious rip tides and plunged into them. He sat in the sinner's house and allowed the prostitute to wash His feet. That was His world one void of any reputation, ours is a well oiled and organized conference scene with polished music and prophetic crescendos as the masses soak. Jesus preferred the lepers and illegitimate as He spent countless sleepless nights in their presence; we are drawn to meetings and church buildings as the orbit of planet earth careens toward a climatic end.

When it was popular to be Jesus' friend they heaped upon Him accolades and endorsements and clamored to be in His company. They called Him "King" and cried His praises in the streets. If their had been the internet and modern technology in the First Century it would have been streamed around the world as every camera captured the epic moments unfolding daily. With even more intensity they would rapidly report on His apparent failure and the headlines would read something like this, "JESUS CHRIST IS NOT WHO HE CLAIMED TO BE!" or, "PROMISES TO RAISE HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD IS OBVIOUS FRAUD..." or even, "FALSE REVIVAL HITS JERUSALEM AS THOUSANDS FILL THE STREETS!" The book of Acts would have gone down in flames under our current regime.

I am still Todd Bentley's friend because he is God's vessel and like our predecessors David, Jonah, Moses, Peter they will rise to the moment again and make history even in the backdrop of their shortcomings. Friend, if you need something else to forward, blog, gossip and talk about - simply send this letter and then let's strive to hit the high mark of God's love and prove to the agnostic and atheist that we are still able to forgive, cover and love just like Jesus did so long ago.

If we spent the energy and time it takes to read the endless articles, long letters from our leaders of "Why, Who and What" we could save our cities and streets from utter depravity and sin. Prophet, quit your rants go find a valley of dry bones and prophesy to them. Apostle, cease and desist from your damage control and go "where Christ has not been preached" and be who you claim to be. We still have a world to win for Jesus. (Rom. 15:20).

TODD BENTLEY I AM STILL YOUR FRIEND!

Chad Taylor - Aug. 26th, 2008 www. consumingfire. com

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat…" - THEODORE ROOSEVELT, (Paris Sorbonne 1910)