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1. Monday, March 3, 2008 6:42 AM
lelandloveslaura Just a little something (spoilers)


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It's always such a pleasure to discover new things in Twin Peaks, especially considering its been around for almost 20 years and I've seen the series close to ten times now. My husband and I have started viewing it again (my eight or ninth, his second) and he noticed something kind of cool in episode 4 during the scene where Sarah is describing her vision to Harry and them. As she's describing the person we soon learn is BOB, she gets very upset and scream "That FACE! That FACE!" or something..something about his face. At the very second Sarah screams this, it cuts to Leland standing there, looking annoyed. He then speaks angrily about Sarah's visions.

 Maybe we're making a mountain ut of a mole hole, but I find this discovery to be pretty interesting. With the hindsight we now have, it's a very poignant moment!


Life is FULL of mysteries, Donna.
 
2. Monday, March 3, 2008 8:56 AM
giospurs RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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There's a definitely moments where you look at Leland's face and you can tell if he's the father or the killer. I haven't seen the episodes enough times to highlight them. It's the same reason the dinnertable scene is so great in FWWM. You get the impression that Sarah knows what's been happening to her daughter but she's somehow repressing it, or at least that's what I think. Although it definitely must be a terribly hard situation to be in, for Sarah to have fully known and done nothing makes me have less sympathy for her although it would probably increase her grief once she was murdered.

 
3. Monday, March 3, 2008 10:01 AM
Audrey Horne RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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it would have to be happy coincidences then -no way the director and editors of episode four knew who the killer was. The same could be said of Donna Hayward when she tells Audrey, "I'll help you, but we have to agree to keep whatever we find to ourselves." (we could say in hindsight it was so obvious she was the killer) -most likely the good directors purposely kept the air of mystery for everyone -which of course makes it work.

 
4. Monday, March 3, 2008 10:25 AM
giospurs RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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QUOTE:it would have to be happy coincidences then -no way the director and editors of episode four knew who the killer was. The same could be said of Donna Hayward when she tells Audrey, "I'll help you, but we have to agree to keep whatever we find to ourselves." (we could say in hindsight it was so obvious she was the killer) -most likely the good directors purposely kept the air of mystery for everyone -which of course makes it work.

 Good point, not that it should detract from the effectiveness of that aspect of those scenes though.

 
5. Monday, March 3, 2008 11:48 AM
Profeetta RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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I'm rewatching the series again and been a little puzzled about some scenes where it seems that the writers & directors knew about Leland from the beginning. It's gotta be that "air of mystery for everyone", keeping each character under suspicion, but in some of Leland's scenes it just seems SO obvious. Strange...

 
6. Monday, March 3, 2008 12:49 PM
Evenreven RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Which ones? The only one I would consider a really strong indication is when Leland dances with Laura's framed photo in episode 1x02. Written by Frost and Lynch, so it could be.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
7. Monday, March 3, 2008 2:45 PM
Profeetta RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Well, you know, I don't watch them with a notebook in my hand, but I could go back to check those scenes and let you know. I remember having the feeling several times, well, more than twice, I guess.

 
8. Thursday, March 6, 2008 7:37 AM
geoffr111 RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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That scene in ep 2 has several indicators.

  1. It opens with Leland snapping his fingers over the victrola.  The episode ends, after the dream sequence, with Cooper doing the same.
  2. Sarah screams "Leland, what is going on in this house," which has a creepy air to it once you know the extent of what HAS been going on in the house.
  3. Leland's jacket has an unusually large harringbone pattern that is very visually similar to the red room floor.
  4. The image of Leland standing over his daughter's picture with blood all over it and himself is also a somewhat of a visual cue.

Another that comes to mind is the coffin "humping" in episode 3's funeral scene when Sarah says "don't ruin this too!"  There are probably more, but that's all I got for now.


 
9. Thursday, March 6, 2008 8:49 AM
giospurs RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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So, do you think that Lynch/Frost knew that Leland was the killer?

Or, maybe it just seemed right after the aforementioned scenes had been filmed.

 
10. Thursday, March 6, 2008 9:13 AM
Evenreven RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Frost has always claimed he knew who the killer was. I have no reason to doubt that.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
11. Thursday, March 6, 2008 9:18 AM
Profeetta RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Lynch & Frost had decided from the start that Leland is the killer, ain't that a fact?

 What I originally meant was I thought I got the feeling that some of the other writers & directors also knew this. And we've been told that was NOT the case, that only Lynch & Frost knew the secret. I'd have to check all the season 1 episodes again to point out the scenes I mean...

 
12. Thursday, March 6, 2008 9:22 AM
Profeetta RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Oh yes, the coffin thing that geoffr pointed out was one of them. And I think there is more, and even more obvious ones. Who wrote/directed episode 3?

 
13. Thursday, March 6, 2008 5:08 PM
Evenreven RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Episode 3
Director: Tina Rathborne
Writer: Harley Peyton

But Frost or even Lynch probably had something to do with the funeral. Apart from that, I think it's telling that the most obvious hints came in the Lynch-directed episode.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
14. Thursday, March 6, 2008 11:01 PM
PopolVuh RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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I think it is notable that Leland is aggravated when Sarah tells them about the necklace/BOB. What happened to his grief?

 Also, in the pilot there's *subtle* clues. Hawk is taking the contents out of Laura's room and when he takes the diary Leland says "do you really have to take that?" Leland examining Laura's corpse might be another one as Dr. Hayward asks him if he really wants to see it (implying that normally a grieving father wouldn't). Of course they laid other red herring clues (Pilot- Audrey Horne's blank expression at the announcement of Laura's death; episode 1- Plastic all around Leo's house- this one is interesting, because in the 8th episode script there's a line that goes "the third man then wrapped Laura in plastic from Leo Johnson's house." I don't recall the line in the actual episode; episode 3- Ben Horne hovering over Laura's body himself- the scene starts with that shot).

 
15. Friday, March 7, 2008 3:50 AM
Profeetta RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Yeah, I guess the most obvious things are in the Lynch/Frost episodes, like the scene in episode 2 where Leland holds Laura's picture with blood all over it and on his hands. If there is something in other episodes, then it must be coincidence or that after episode 2 some writers figured out or at least guessed the killer. Never know. The viewer is also constantly tricked to be suspicious about many characters, like PopulVuh just pointed, so it could be just part of that.

 
16. Friday, March 7, 2008 1:07 PM
chalfont RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Episode 2, Maddy making her entrance.

I love this scene. Didn't notice, despite watching it probably 25 times, before someone here pointed it out. 

 

Jade(Invitation to Love):"Daddy? It's Jade."

Maddy: "Uncle Leland?"

Jade:"Daddy. please. I know you're in there"

Leland:"Madeleine?"

Jared(Invitation to Love):"Jade. What a surprise"

Leland:"Maddy? Is it you?"

 

Cleary, Lynch early on gave some hints to the viewers the Leland definitaly had some sort of special relationship to Laura. Sarah is naturally crushed after her daughters death, but Leland reaction is somewhat something far more.

 

 

 
17. Friday, March 7, 2008 3:19 PM
Profeetta RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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QUOTE:

 

 

 

Cleary, Lynch early on gave some hints to the viewers the Leland definitaly had some sort of special relationship to Laura.

 

 

Lynch & Frost yes, but the other writers & directors weren't supposed to know about the whole thing.
 

 
18. Friday, March 7, 2008 5:20 PM
Evenreven RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Chalfont, that scene is from episode 3, written by Harley Peyton, not Lynch and Frost's episode 2. Granted, Invitation to Love was (I believe) written and directed by Frost, so he could have put a hint or too in there.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
19. Friday, March 7, 2008 5:55 PM
Audrey Horne RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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I see it, but it really is in hindsight -Ray Wise didn't act those scene with knowledge he was the killer, and even if he wasn't revealed to be the murderer, those early scenes would still work, still had truth of grief.

If Audrey was unmasked as the killer, we'd say the signs were there -cold, distant, smirking in the classroom, "knew Laura better than the others," danced compulsively like the little man, "there's always music in the air."

Donna wants Audrey, maddy and James to keep what they find out "to themselves."

Dr. Hayward in the second episode when revealing her autopsy couldn't do it himself, so brought someone else in -obvious guilt from killing her?

the signs and clues were there for most of the people -it's funny at the time, I never even thought about the Palmers because I didn't feel like they were major characters.

But this is the strength of the first half of the series -everyone is a suspect, and a plausable one.

 
20. Saturday, March 8, 2008 12:08 AM
jamiel8668 RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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QUOTE:

So, do you think that Lynch/Frost knew that Leland was the killer?

Or, maybe it just seemed right after the aforementioned scenes had been filmed.

Good question.


No, I don't think they did. And believe that the footage they had filmed led them to 'the killer'. 



"Great. Maybe after the square dance we can all take a hay-ride."
 
21. Saturday, March 8, 2008 2:41 AM
Evenreven RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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So you're saying Frost is lying?


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
22. Saturday, March 8, 2008 11:26 AM
jamiel8668 RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Yeah, maybe.

I recall in the extras of the Gold Box Edition Mark Frost says something like... "...we kinda knew who the killer was."

I always kind of figured somewhere around the middle of Season 1 they really started to 'narrow it down'.

That said, I was always suspicious of the scene in the Pilot Episode where Sheriff Trueman turns up when Leland receives a call from Sarah, who is obviously aware of something bad happening, to tell him Laura has been murdered.

That's what I loved about the show though. It seemed almost improvised at times and yet they found a way to tie it all together.

Fairly certain about that Frost comment. I will check that again though.


"Great. Maybe after the square dance we can all take a hay-ride."
 
23. Saturday, March 8, 2008 5:38 PM
Ivan Sputnik RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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I believe that Frost, and even Lynch, supervised and approved all the shooting scripts, at least in the first season, and could easily have inserted things -- such as "cut to Leland -- he looks momentarily annoyed at Sarah". Or whatever. Scripts aren't just dialog....


The question is, Where have you gone?
 
24. Sunday, March 9, 2008 5:23 AM
Profeetta RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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Yeah, that could very well be the case.

What comes to Lynch & Frost deciding about the killer, I believe they knew from the start that they were making a story that has father who abused & killed his daughter, and the crazy idea of inhabiting spirit was there too. They just didn't know yet how to exactly play it out. Then, while shooting the pilot, Lynch got the idea of Bob, and the whole thing developed as they went on.

 
25. Sunday, March 9, 2008 12:10 PM
giospurs RE: Just a little something (spoilers)


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QUOTE:

Yeah, that could very well be the case.

What comes to Lynch & Frost deciding about the killer, I believe they knew from the start that they were making a story that has father who abused & killed his daughter, and the crazy idea of inhabiting spirit was there too. They just didn't know yet how to exactly play it out. Then, while shooting the pilot, Lynch got the idea of Bob, and the whole thing developed as they went on.


 I find it hard to imagine what TP would be like without BOB. Knowing that he's in there with Leland makes Ray Wise's performance much more horrific.

 

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