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| 1. Sunday, February 10, 2008 7:27 PM |
| 12rainbow |
Who Is Susan Blue? |
Member Since 12/19/2005 Posts:4953
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Close watchers of Inland Empire, I have an assignment for you: Please give me a bio of Susan Blue, based on what is seen in IE. And also, are we correct to assume that what we see of her existence is a sort of delusion of Nikki's?
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| 2. Monday, February 11, 2008 8:18 AM |
| smokedchezpig |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I am not feeling completely up to snuff today and I was thinking of curling up on the couch with a blanket and a hot toddy (the drink not the musician) and watch Inland Empire, so I will try to come up with some kind of bio. Off the top of my head, I would say that Susan Blue, besides being the character Nikki Grace plays in On High in Blue Tomorrows, is a strange amalgamation of Nikki's factual life and what results when Nikki get over immersed in the character of Susan. Nikki's real life begins to have strange parallels with the character she is playing and this makes her confused on what is real and what is part of the story and also both women, Nikki and the fictional character Susan, also have strange parallels with the woman Nikki is commissed to save (Lost Girl) so all three realities merge and become entangled in each other as she works her way through the Inland Empire until she finally finds Lost Girl at the end.
"Every day holds a new beginning and every hour holds the promise of an Invitation to Love."
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| 3. Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:18 PM |
| Ivan Sputnik |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I think it is part delusion and part the scripted character in On High in Blue Tomorrows. Here's what I gathered from watching IE a couple of times: Apparently, the character "Susan" is a Southern woman (she has a Southern accent) currently living in a tract house in the Inland Empire section of California. She's married to a Polish guy (from Poland) who used to work for a circus, taking care of circus animals; current occupation unknown. He may also have a wife and son in Poland, although he's currently sterile. Susan apparently works (as a secretary? housekeeper?) for a wealthy Southern gentleman, who is also living in California for some reason. She's having an affair with him. Susan may have been a prostitute at one time -- at least she's had some very rough experiences with men in the past....That's my thumbnail sketch of Susan. I could be completely wrong, LOL.
The question is, Where have you gone?
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| 4. Monday, February 18, 2008 5:37 PM |
| LetsRoque |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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Sue Blue is one woman and all women in trouble. She is the embodiment of the suffering that women endure as a consequence of modern male inaction, indifference, and impotence. She is a damaged woman but a strong woman. 'You gotta admit though, she's got a great ass!'
'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
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| 5. Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:04 PM |
| Sue Blue |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I actually received the impression that what we see of Nikki Grace are delusions of Sue Blue, and that Sue Blue, for having committed a crime, "acts" as an alternate personality (Nikki Grace, who becomes an actress) in defending herself from law enforcement and ultimately "becomes" this identity, completely disconnecting herself from the former personality ("Sue Blue", the criminal).
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| 6. Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:57 PM |
| chainsaw |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I only saw it once. But as best I could wrap my mind around it... Sue Blue the dying prostitute -> Nikki the actress (fugue personality assumed by Sue) -> Sue Blue the fictional movie character (played by Nikki) = one and the same (and dead)
In her final moments of a dreary life, Sue the hooker entered a fugue state in which she becomes Nikki the actress. It's not so much a split personality anymore than anybody assumes a split personality when they dream at night that they are somebody else, or dreams that their lives are different. The fugue state is a way to avoid the horrible realities of life, but unfortunately Hooker Sue's subconscious seems to let her real life bubble to the surface via the role Nikki is attempting to perform. Kinda like the way your life starts to flash before your eyes when you are about to die. And when Sue the prostitute does in fact die on the street, she is then met again by the movie crew with great warmth and appreciation, not unlike the way we may meet loved ones in a near death experience. But they welcome her as Nikki, which Sue views with skepticism. This skepticism seems to allow Sue to confront her mortality a little more directly, for as she leaves the film set, Lynch's well-known red curtains can be seen briefly (her transition into the underworld?) and she enters a theater where she can be seen on the screen (again, life flashing before one's eye's...but no longer from the immersed 1st person perspective). Despite this departure from life, elements from her life still seem to intermingle with her afterlife; as can be seen in the final seen with the Japanese girl with the blond wig & monkey are present in the same room as a lumberjack (an out-of-place character, unless he's the same archetype as can be seen briefly amongst other Lodge inhabitants in FWWM). That is, presuming the Japanese girl is not also dead. It's been awhile since I've seen it, so I could be wrong.
"Go to the sound of cutting wood."
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| 7. Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:04 PM |
| JFK |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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12 rainbow, couldnt we just keep the IE thread going here? as for sue blue, im not sure a biography is possible. to me she is a fictional character in the film that acts as a conduit for lost girl to nikki grace, and has qualities of both, as well as a third(LB monologue) that seems the result of the whole intertwining conscioussness of lost girl and nikki. they share the stongest arcs in the film, and that fact alone, inclines me to think this is the main story of IE. the salvation of not just lost girl, but nikki as well(hence the end credits party in the ballroom in her mansion)(and by salvation i would say joining or at least making a ripple in the unified consciousness, to which lynch ascribes, and making the necessary ripple, neither good or bad, but necessary) also: she has doppelgangers! this makes her somewhat empherial, i think, if taken into account how doppelgangers were used in TP(i assume most here are familar with it) which also leads to the idea that IE has similarities of fire walking, i.e. confronting your reflection(or fear). which caused evil as vistor 1 i believe said. just throwing out ideas here! anyone?anyone?
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| 8. Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:54 AM |
| Laura was a patient of mine |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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Excellent bio there, that makes perfect sense. I'd figured out which scenes were Sue for the most part, but I'd never quite totally put it together.
That god damn trailer's more popular than Uncle's Day in a whorehouse!
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| 9. Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:10 AM |
| Profeetta |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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Yes, that bio is perfect. But wasn't Sue the character of the movie different from this bio's Sue? Oh, I've gotta see IE again.
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| 10. Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:35 PM |
| Laura was a patient of mine |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I see no evidence for that... I'm pretty sure everything he/she describes fits in with the scenes that we know are in OHIBT. Love the idea that she's a domestic, I never understood exactly what her relationship with Billy and Doris was. Not that it matters too much in the big scheme of things, but it's still interesting to figure out some of the more knowable details.
That god damn trailer's more popular than Uncle's Day in a whorehouse!
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| 11. Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:34 PM |
| Profeetta |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I'm not sure how I got that idea, and I don't remember IE too clearly. Like I said, I gotta see it again. Coming out of it was like coming out of a powerful dream. I did not "get it all", yet I was excited about it, touched & moved by it and able to grasp it themes. I was buzzing out of my mind from the sheer feel of mystery it left me with. During my first viewing I thought it was all about Lost Girl and that 47, OHIBT, Nikki Grace, Sue Blue and all was her delusions as she's trying to escape her own life & actions. I don't know if that's a common theory & I bet all of the heavy weight IE theorists who've seen & analyzed it thousand times could easily pull the carpet off of that one. But that's how it occured to me the first time I saw the film. I've seen it once more after my initial viewing & was then almost as overwhelmed as I was the first time.
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| 12. Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:09 PM |
| Laura was a patient of mine |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I both totally agree with you and disagree with you Profeeta, Nikki, Sue, the movie and everything were part of Lost Girl's trance (I think it's more of a soul searching meditative trance, in which she dives into her subconscious, rather than a dream), characters that only exist in her subconscious and reflect certain aspects of her (like the people in dreams), but that doesn't necessarily mean they're less real than she is. LG herself is just a character in a radio play anyway... I think a big theme in Lynch's recent work is that characters in dreams, films, etc. are just as real as the people who dream them up, that dreams are just as real as reality. Nikki is a part of LG and LG is a part of Nikki, neither of them can attain happiness until they connect.
That god damn trailer's more popular than Uncle's Day in a whorehouse!
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| 13. Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:32 PM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
Member Since 12/19/2005 Posts:4953
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Admittedly, I haven't had time to pick up IE since I started this thread, but I was coming to a similar conclusion.
Nikki is a method actor, which is a kind of insanity- or at least a dangerous way of opening up your psyche to bad things. She screws Devon to get closer to her role and willingly enters her world. What pushes her over the edge is whatever evil killed the cast of the original cast, that is, The Phantom.
The Phantom is the "evil" in the folk tale The Visitor tells (this is a point I think everyone agrees on.) Maybe he was an earlier first victim of a greater evil, and he's just the conduit, like Leland in Twin Peaks. I dunno, maybe the greater evil is infidelity, prostitution, spousal abuse and murder and he's a metaphor for that. (In Twin Peaks, Killer BOB is often seen as a metaphor for incest and murder.) It's significant that The Phantom hawks magic jewelry like fake Rolexes and works in a circus with animals. Carnies and street peddlers are notorious con-men. Killer BOB is also associated with animals. Nikki is able to shake out of it in the theater and kills the Phantom; thus freeing the Lost Girl. I don't think she was the actress in 47, just another victim of the Phantom, like the Rabbits are. Maybe the street whores and the girls in Susan's house are, too... When Nikki/Susan first grabs the screwdriver, it is Nikki flashing through. When she calls through the set house window, she is trying to come through again. Nikki reasserts control again when she runs into the nightclub- she knows she has a mission to fulfill. (You stay too long in the other world, you forget yourself completely. This is DL bringing in Dorothy and Oz again, I think.)
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| 14. Friday, February 29, 2008 7:16 AM |
| Laura was a patient of mine |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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You're forgetting that the Phantom is Nikki, or rather, the evil inside her, and by extension stands for the evil inside LG. Remember when she suddenly sees a twisted version of her face over his? IMO: I would say the Lost Girl isn't actually freed from an actual magical curse, but rather the "curse" of leading an empty and unhappy life; the whole film is her journey to reach enlightenment. Once she can recognize the evil inside herself, and fight it, can she achieve enlightenment. The film just makes a lot more sense this way to me... if you go with the elaborate, magical theory, then the film essentially becomes about nothing other than an obscure and confusing plot.
That god damn trailer's more popular than Uncle's Day in a whorehouse!
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| 15. Friday, February 29, 2008 8:28 AM |
| Profeetta |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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^Good points, LWAPOM. But I guess I have to stop reading what people think about IE so that I can watch it again without other peoples' views entirely coloring my own experience.
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| 16. Friday, February 29, 2008 1:12 PM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
Member Since 12/19/2005 Posts:4953
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| QUOTE: You're forgetting that the Phantom is Nikki, or rather, the evil inside her, and by extension stands for the evil inside LG. Remember when she suddenly sees a twisted version of her face over his? |
To refer to Twin Peaks again, I believe Nikki was in the same position as Laura Palmer: in danger of possession/giving into darkness, either metaphorically or literally speaking.
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| 17. Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:33 AM |
| JFK |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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| QUOTE: I can see the nature of the 'evil' both ways. I also see it , as the witch says, '...a boy went out the door, saw his shadow < EDIT: actually, he sees his reflection. Sorry.>, and evil was born..' Evil being the Jungian archetype of The Shadow, (often identified with The Devil, in the Tarot), that is, all the stuff left out of a healthy, integrated ego. This integration, perhaps is where we're headed in IE.( This being the oft-used 'Depth Psychology' interpretation of art, not just IE, which I tend to avoid as being, imo, undramatic. Odd, ain't it, how useless as therapy and convenient as dramatic criticism Jung's theories are?) Also, The Phantom is as trapped as LG. He tries to get 'in' as she wishes to get 'out.' In fact, he tries through various magical, hypnotic and other means ( like moving to the geographical Inland Empire and running the prostitutes on Hollywood Blvd.) to get OHIBT produced so that the release of the captives can occur. This would identify him, somewhat, with The Magus. As noted above, when Sue kills the Phantom, his visage, in a golden, trancsendental apotheosis, is morphed into her own |
firstly, i like all the ideas in this thread. im glad to be a part of some much need IE gossip. so back again to TP. cooper could not confront his doppelganger without trepidation. because of this he remained trapped in the black lodge. Nikki( tho i disagree that she is the phantom. the phantom contains parts of her, as she contains parts of him) is able to meet her 'other' without fear, and with the proper weapon, from piotrek, not smithy, mind you(the green jacket was worn by piotrek in the first axxon n scene, then was taken to smithy's house, the point being piotrek enables the phantom and the curse or whatever to be lifted)(im sorry if its annoying by my use of many parentheses, i work off tangents) which to me makes me believe piotrek is moving through each layer of the onion, in different guises, trying to right the wrong that happened in poland so long ago. so to correct my previous post, he too, with nikki and LG have the strongest arcs of the story, and should be included as one the three main protagonists(a subjective view i know). it occurs to me that rabbits was two women and a man. what if rabbits is an abstraction of the unfinished german production 4-7, as it takes place in room 47? tho obsurce at times, it does not seem to me to deviate far from the dynamics of the triangle of LG-Nikki-piotrek. which is all initiated by the story OHIBT, which could be what LG is expieriencing in the hotel room. by the way, does Lawerence Aston ring anyones bells? hes listed as the author of OHIBT and i havent a clue about him and havent seen any discussion.
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| 18. Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:27 AM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
Member Since 12/19/2005 Posts:4953
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Carl- I do like the idea of The Phantom as Magus. I’m not quite sure about his being trapped. If he is The Magician, he can free and bind himself at will, like Houdini. He plays at shaman, offering damnation disguised as a blessing. Because if we use other characters from the Lynch mythos as touchstones for The Phantom they all seem more like Magicians than Devils. My studies have always led me to read The Devil Tarot card as a very necessary aspect of the fully integrated consciousness; the repressed, Dionysian side. You have to reconcile with it as part of your personality, but you don’t want it to take over completely. The Shadow archetype is at the heart of nearly all Lynch’s protagonists, their lustful and criminal excesses. Even Jeffrey Beaumont recognizes his darker side as the Frank Booth in him. The bum behind Winkies (“He’s the one who’s doing it,”) The Mystery Man (“It’s not my custom to go where I’m not wanted,”) and BOB all have games relating to the shadow self or are attuned to it; able to “reflect” the evil in a person. So, our Phantom/Magician has bound himself to Nikki and others, exploiting them. She has to destroy herself to achieve apotheosis, like Laura Palmer did, disappearing after the curse is broken, whereupon she goes to a better place. (Camilla Rhodes is there, so is the hooker with the monkey and the hole in her vagina-wall!) Just as Dale sacrifices himself and comforts Laura in the afterworld, Nikki does the same for the Lost Girl and her husband and child. JFK- Piotrek’s role is really bugging me. I can’t make sense of his identity changes from what’s there, if he’s good or bad and or in control at all, but I think you’re onto something. Any ideas what exactly happened in Poland in the past? I started a separate thread about it.
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| 19. Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:38 PM |
| Ivan Sputnik |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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I think the only significance of "Lawrence Ashton" is his initials: L.A. As for Sue and Billy having Southern accents... I suppose one of the things that attracted them to each other is that they are both displaced Southerners. People raised in the South do move to California sometimes.
The question is, Where have you gone?
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| 20. Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:40 PM |
| 12rainbow |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
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Susan says "He was a Marine from North Carolina." Surely the only person she can be talking about is Billy.
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| 21. Sunday, March 2, 2008 7:37 AM |
| JFK |
RE: Who Is Susan Blue? |
Member Since 5/5/2007 Posts:562
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the pleasure is ours
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