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26. Sunday, January 27, 2008 6:47 PM
Fred RE: The FWWM poem


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I think something subtle is being overlooked here: the possibility of punning.

When we watch the relevant episode, we are _hearing_ the poem being said by Mike, rather than _reading_ a written text. This is an important distinction. In this particular case, the spoken word is more important than the written word. The end product of Lynch and Frost's work is not a written text, but a TV programme. Because "chance" and "chants" sound almost exactly the same when spoken, (so similar than we can barely distinguish the difference), it is entirely possible that Mike (or Lynch and Frost) is/are using a pun, to overlay two meanings onto the same word.

Of course, this is quite a common device, eg, in Romeo and Juliet, Mercutio, who has just been stabbed says "Look for me tomorrow and you will find me a grave man". Here, of course, "grave" means both "a place of burial in a cemetery" and "serious or sombre". The line is so ingeniously worded, that it conveys both meanings at the same time. Well, it's a pretty simple example but you get my point, I hope.

Now, when Mike _says_ the poem, a similar device is being used. The homophone [chans] is conveying _both_ "chance" meaning "opportunity" and "chants" meaning "intone in a low, monotonous voice". Thus, like most poetry, Mike's poem is ambiguous, conveying not just one cut-and-dried meaning, but a whole host of different ideas.

 
27. Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:52 PM
geoffr111 RE: The FWWM poem


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It is entirely possible, but I don't think I buy it.  Firstly, puns are typically meant to be humorous.  The double meaning you are arguing for in this case has no humor.  Plus, puns usually rely upon some sort of context to support their duality.  Mercutio's use of "grave" in your example above is grounded in the fact that the audience sees both that he is dying and that the situation is particularly somber.  The orality of "grave" can then work because the audience knows both contexts to interpret from.  In the case we mean here, this is not the case because the poem and the scene it appears in provide such contexts for neither "chants" nor "chance," and no evidence is given later that the meanings should be dual.  The text, in other words, provides no clues to the spectator that a pun is being utilized.  This of course would mean that many might not pick up on the dual meanings... and that the "pun" wasn't particularly effective.

So yeah, it could happen.  If that was what was intended, however, it's pretty sloppy from a literary standpoint.  :)


 
28. Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:35 PM
Fred RE: The FWWM poem


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QUOTE:

It is entirely possible, but I don't think I buy it.  Firstly, puns are typically meant to be humorous.  The double meaning you are arguing for in this case has no humor.  Plus, puns usually rely upon some sort of context to support their duality.  Mercutio's use of "grave" in your example above is grounded in the fact that the audience sees both that he is dying and that the situation is particularly somber.  The orality of "grave" can then work because the audience knows both contexts to interpret from.  In the case we mean here, this is not the case because the poem and the scene it appears in provide such contexts for neither "chants" nor "chance," and no evidence is given later that the meanings should be dual.  The text, in other words, provides no clues to the spectator that a pun is being utilized.  This of course would mean that many might not pick up on the dual meanings... and that the "pun" wasn't particularly effective.

So yeah, it could happen.  If that was what was intended, however, it's pretty sloppy from a literary standpoint.  :)


 Well, maybe "pun" is the wrong word. Perhaps I should've said "play on words" or something. The thing is: puns can sometimes be used for serious meanings. In fact, in the Mercutio example, the meaning is very serious indeed: Mercutio is mortally wounded. Also, remember that with Lynch, the true meaning is far from obvious, and there are lots of hidden messages, whose meaning only becomes apparent later on, eg, in the famous Red Room scene, eg, "sometimes my arms bend back". Mike's poem does have clues, but they are not immediately obvious. The fact that some fans have found interpretations for "one chance" and others for "one chants" only goes to show that some people are prepared to go to the trouble of closely examining these clues and interpreting them. In other words: both of the two meanings have been ultimately uncovered. But I agree: the viewer is unlikely to think of these meanings after just one viewing.

 
29. Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:45 PM
3519273540 RE: The


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It is possible. However, he did write "chants" and that is not spelled the same way as "chance". So, if he meant it to be used in both ways, he did choose "chants" as the preferred version. There are numerous cases in Shakespeare (or any written work) where a homophone could be substituted and interpreted, but that was not the intention of the author. In this case, it is clear that the author intended the word to be "chants". If he had it in his mind that it could also be "chance" he chose not to communicate this to the audience in any way, but to seemingly affirm the opposite, by printing the version with 'chants'.

 
30. Monday, January 28, 2008 1:33 AM
Evenreven RE: The FWWM poem


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QUOTE:

Firstly, puns are typically meant to be humorous.


Typically, yes. But not necessarily. "Surf's Up" by Van Dyke Parks and Brian Wilson is a good example of very serious word play. Also, it has very little context on how to interpret it, since the meanings are usually associative, not concrete and related doubles like in the Mercutio case.

I do agree that it's highly unlikely in this case, though. There's something about the chance/chants duality that's somehow too trivial to be a likely candidate for intentional word play. It's not like "you shall find me a grave man".


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
31. Monday, February 4, 2008 9:44 AM
jlyon1515 RE: The FWWM poem


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Just thought I'd send you all this link:

http://www.twinpeaks.org/faqeps.htm#e25

That Common Questions list was created in the mid 90s... so technically, the info is more accurate based on when the show aired. :)

And to add the the subtitle talk... subtitles can never be used to prove anything, outside companies sometimes do the text, so it is common for subtitles to be wrong.

 
32. Friday, November 5, 2010 7:39 PM
DistantJ RE: The


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My interpretation...

Through the darkness of future past - The black lodge has non-linear time.

The magician longs to see - Not sure, but the 'grandson' character is referred to as a magician and in the movie he has a mask with no eye holes.

One chants out between two worlds - Still up in the air about that one :P

FIRE WALK WITH ME - Now, although Mike puts a pause, making it sound like "Fire, walk with me", I actually think the phrase is "fire walk with me", no punctuation. Firewalking - walking on burning coals - metaphorically walking across the flames to transcend pain and the physical constraints of the body. Basically saying "WALK ACROSS THE FIRE WITH ME" an invite to come into the Black Lodge... Just the way I see it.

 
33. Sunday, November 7, 2010 12:32 PM
The Spirit Owl RE: The


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My two cents:

The poem is simply outlining a procedure, much as the petroglyph was a map.

The Magician (defined as the person seeking access to the Black Lodge) who wants to see through the darkness of future-past (meaning gain access to the Black Lodge and make some sense of the experience) should go to the place between the two worlds (Glastonbury grove, although there must be others) and chant: "Fire walk with me". This invocation should draw the attention of Bob and the merry crew from the BL and let them know that the Magician is willing to open himself to them in order to enlist their aid.

I think that the poem deals solely with the Black Lodge because fire is seen as a bad thing throughout the series (Log Lady: Fire is the devil...) and that a Magician chanting the last line is not even planning on going to the White Lodge.

The darkness referred to in the poem also reminds me of the last episode of the second season. When Cooper enters the Waiting Room and the LMFAP appears, the place goes dark. Same thing happens after the LMFAP says "Fire walk with me", thus (IMHO) sending Cooper into the Black Lodge.

What the poem says is that, in the tradition of magic, the Magician needs a spirit to take him into the Lodge and guide him. Simply going to the Glastonbury Grove and walking about isn't enough. Cooper got in on his own, but he is special. The rest of us need an invitation. : )

 
34. Monday, November 8, 2010 6:58 AM
bluefrank RE: The


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I've really only ever considered the term to be 'chants' in respect of the whole phrase.

'Between two worlds'...I've only really considered as being the 'earthly plane/world' and the 'etheric plane/world'

'Chants' being related to invocation (inside of body) and evocation (outside of body) of spirits, as per magickal pursuits etc...the sonics of chanting and its vibration as a means of communicating to these worlds/aspects. (enochian calls being an example)

The chant 'fire walk with me'...as invoked by Laura in FWWM at Harold's...briefly causes a spirit to manifest inside her body.

 

That's my take up to this point.

 

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