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Twin Peaks & FWWM > Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?
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26. Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:43 PM
Fred RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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It looks like a cut in the fabric to me. I can't actually see any threads.

 
27. Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:11 PM
Fred RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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Regarding what Mike shouts at Leland during the traffic jam scene: "The thread will be torn, Mr Palmer, the thread will be torn!" Having thought this over, I now think it has the following meaning: Mike is saying that eventually the mask of Leland will be torn off, revealing BOB's face behind it! The thread is simply the metaphorical "thread" holding the "mask" onto BOB's face.

Eventually, Laura will discover who BOB is inhabiting, and realise the truw relationship between BOB and Leland. This fits in with Pierre Tremond's utterance, "The man behind the mask is looking for the book..."

 
28. Sunday, November 11, 2007 7:20 PM
geoffr111 RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE:It looks like a cut in the fabric to me. I can't actually see any threads.

I think you're looking at the pocket there, Fred.  The thread where the dress was taken in is on the front, running up and down under each breast.


 
29. Monday, November 12, 2007 3:10 AM
Evenreven RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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>>>If people really want to believe that the extended eurofilm ending is the whole, unedited dream Cooper has in episode two, it is unlikely that anything anyone says will dissuade them since anything can be rationalized through selective and/or creative interpretation.  However, we must ask ourselves... what do we gain out of this reading?  Why must we rationalize the end as being a part of the Peaks cannon?<<<

There is one reason, and one reason only, why we do that: Cooper's description of his dream in episode 3. Except the "red thread" and some more everything is there in his description and thus in the actual series. Hadn't it been for that scene no one would have viewed the Euro-Pilot as anything more than a non-canonical rarity. But it's there.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
30. Monday, November 12, 2007 9:40 AM
ThisIsTheGirl RE: Lack of Full length Dream sequence in Episode 2


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QUOTE: 

Plus, if Coop saw BOB in the Euro pilot, then why did they have to wait for Sarah Palmer to provide them with a sketch?  Even if it were a dream, he should have remembered his face. 


 I totally agree that the Euro Ending is merely a curiosity - but I don't understand this comment at all. Whatever ending you prefer, the sketch works either way. When they show the sketch to coop, he instantly says "this is the man I saw in my dream".

Am I missing something here?

As for the 25 years later caption - IMO the most important thing about that is that it links into the fact that the creators were fans of Un Chien Andalou (despite Lynch's claims that he is not a fan of Bunuel).

To briefly explain: Un Chien Andalou is a short film that is a collection of scenes and images which are highly surreal. At some point in the movie, the words "8 years later" flash up onscreen - and the movie continues down its completely non-linear path. Bunuel's point was that, despite the apparent "randomness" of the images, the caption forced the audience to attribute some kind of narrative structure to what they were seeing - despite the fact that there was none. Lynch really went to town with this concept in INLAND EMPIRE, but that's another thread!


Has he taken his eyes off it yet?

 
31. Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:33 PM
Fred RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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Regarding the retailored dress, I see where the threads are now.  Previously, I was looking at the pocket, as you say! Thanks for pointing that out! Well, as you say, the thread looks exactly the same colour as the rest of the dress, namely red, so there is indeed red thread.

However, when Mike mentions "the stitches with the red thread", it could just be a coincidence.

Regarding ThisIsTheGirl's point about Un Chien Andalou, I had never thought of that before, but now you mention it, that could well be the inspiration for the 25 years later caption. Then again, maybe Lynch just thought: Why don't I have Cooper in a dream sequence where he is 25 years older? Actually, now that I come to think of it, the whole thing reminds me of 2001: A Space Odyssey at the end. (Sorry to anyone who has not seen this. But I'm not really giving much away by posting this.) David Bowman find himself in a mysterious room in which he mysteriously grows older over a short period, and has a vision of an older version of himself across the room.

 
32. Tuesday, November 13, 2007 4:34 PM
Hyde RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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I guess I am just surprised that no one has ever watched it this way.  I always stop the video and show them the extended Euro Ending, and THEN watch the broadcast version. 

I am editing it together in a smoother, polished cut right now on Windows movie editor.  Weeeee, fun.  lol

 
33. Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:55 AM
ThisIsTheGirl RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE:

David Bowman find himself in a mysterious room in which he mysteriously grows older over a short period, and has a vision of an older version of himself across the room.


That's a good point - I'd never thought of that!

 


Has he taken his eyes off it yet?

 
34. Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:53 PM
Fred RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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Nice of you to say so, ThisIsTheGirl.

 
35. Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:58 PM
Evenreven RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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I don't think the "Un chien andalou" parallel is very apt. There's a major difference in the time-jumping of that film and "Twin Peaks", most notably after the "huit ans après" part where the actress' eye is intact and fully functional. Cooper, on the other hand, has indeed aged. Bunuel reaches out to the outer world by engaging in red herring that's basically irony (in the classical sense) and self-reflection. Laughter or fright are the only real responses to the paradoxes favoured by Bunuel. I'm not saying "Un chien andalou" doesn't make sense, because on closer inspection it makes a lot of sense. But Bunuel's way of thwarting expectation is radically different from Lynch's - Lynch tries to create a self-contained universe in the Red Room, with touches that make sense, no matter how strange kind of sense, from a narrative point of view he keeps it within a unified space. Bunuel, on the other hand, found paradox a good way of expressing marxism and hatred of the bourgeoisie, a far cry from Lynch's conservative impulse.

I generally think the Luis Bunuel-David Lynch connection is spurious at best, and the only thing they really have in common is that they're often referred to as surrealists. Interestingly, David Lynch is much closer to the popular notion of surrealism as a way of using the language of dreams as a mode of expression. Because Bunuel doesn't really resemble that profile that at all.

I agree that 2001 is a much more likely candidate.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
36. Friday, November 16, 2007 2:15 AM
Profeetta RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE: Lynch tries to create a self-contained universe in the Red Room,

 Later on in the series yes, but in the so called International Pilot I think not.

 
37. Friday, November 16, 2007 9:26 AM
jlyon1515 RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE:

What about the Red Room scene though...was that SHOT with the european Ending, or was that added later when episode 2 was shot?

According to the newly released DVD set, the Red Room scene came about when Lynch was told that he had to wrap up the Pilot for the "european" ending. That's when he came up with the idea of the red room.

And just to chime in. There are always mysteries in Twin Peaks, and to me, it's fine that the episode 2 red room is the length that it is. And though the thread is a different color, it could just be a reference to the FBI using thread and taylored dressed to indicate different codes for things.

 
38. Friday, November 16, 2007 9:37 AM
Booth RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE: most notably after the "huit ans après" part where the actress' eye is intact and fully functional.
Maybe it's the ghost of her eyeball, haunting her eye-socket?

 
39. Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:39 PM
Hyde RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE:
QUOTE:

What about the Red Room scene though...was that SHOT with the european Ending, or was that added later when episode 2 was shot?

According to the newly released DVD set, the Red Room scene came about when Lynch was told that he had to wrap up the Pilot for the "european" ending. That's when he came up with the idea of the red room.

And just to chime in. There are always mysteries in Twin Peaks, and to me, it's fine that the episode 2 red room is the length that it is. And though the thread is a different color, it could just be a reference to the FBI using thread and taylored dressed to indicate different codes for things.


 Ahhhhhh, as far as including the red room to end the pilot....yes, that makes since with what FROST said on that video 4 years ago before FWWM.  THANK YOU JARED!  That fits perfectly.

By the way guys...I still like TP the way it is...with the red room edited down, and only flashes of Bob and Mike being shown....I just always found it to be a bonus to have the extended sequence to see.....

What if you show it to people AFTER they see the broadcast of episode 2?  After they see the dream sequence, then they can see the unedited version and it can be explained to them that it was originally an alternate ending to the pilot.....but later, used as a dream sequence in episode 2.  Then they would see the episode as intended....but they would also see all the extra footage afterwards. 

 
40. Monday, November 19, 2007 7:39 AM
Evenreven RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE:
QUOTE: Lynch tries to create a self-contained universe in the Red Room,

Later on in the series yes, but in the so called International Pilot I think not.

Bad choice of words, perhaps. I also said "unified space", which is better. The Red Room makes sense as the Red Room, no matter if it's a dream or not. "Un chien andalou" doesn't make sense in the same way - it's violent and aggressive where the Red Room is beautiful and seductive.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
41. Friday, November 23, 2007 2:28 AM
Profeetta RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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OK, I get you Evenreven, and sorry, I didn't mean to split hairs. What I meant is I don't think Lynch was originally trying to make anything but a closed ending which he needed because of the contract. He just got this visual idea, fell in love with it, as he likes to put it, and carried it out. Then, as the series went along, the Red Room idea developed and got new meanings.

 
42. Friday, November 23, 2007 7:33 AM
Evenreven RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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Definitely. I completely agree.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
43. Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:34 AM
jamiel8668 RE: Lack of Full length Dream WHAT GIVES? Is this chopped liver?


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QUOTE:

...although the stitches with the red thread have always made reference to Lil's dress being that is their code for drugs, and Teresa and Laura were so into Cocaine.

Does anyone think it is brilliant when Sarah remembers that she saw BOB hiding behind Laura's bed?

Interesting theory on the red stitches. I'll have to give that one some thought.

Sarah remembering Bob? Hmmm...

Being that I'm in Australia, we did not get the 'European' version. In fact, I only came across that ending on youtube earlier this year.

Hell, the Gold Box Sets don't drop here till 05/12/07!

Sad, I know. 

Still, I enjoyed the series without the 'alternate' ending. And agree that the series should be viewed without that bit. 

 

 

 



"Great. Maybe after the square dance we can all take a hay-ride."
 

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