you know what's funny is that i've never noticed it as a "thing" between her and coop. lol more like a gal going thru a normal teenager "i'm 18 coop"- so, it seemed like a cute plot but i'm glad they didn't pursue it honestly. and the thing with the nasty comment about some one's (sherilyn's) character well, sherilyn doesn't need me to slam a few words around but i'm sure there's no aftermath like ya get from a toad if ya kiss her or something but i bet it's even better than being on cloud nine eh? so....... LMAO anyhow, i've never read that article/interview and was a good read eh? *cheers*

I've been looking for a thread on this topic for hours!  To be honest, I fell in love with the show mostly because of the undeniable chemistry between Agent Dale Cooper and Audrey Horne.  I was from utterly captivated... to ultimately obsessed with what would happen next between them.  I wanted something to happen between them, not just in the physical sense, but also true love.  Aside from the murder case, the Cooper/Audrey storyline was what kept the show interesting and moving forward.  The show, like Fenn said, lost its coolness when they cut that storyline.  I wholeheartedly agree.  I felt the same while watching the show and realizing Audrey would not end up with Cooper after all.  When Annie entered the picture, my heart literally sank, I could not bear to watch a scene with Heather Graham (of course, I had to anyway).  In my head, "that should have been Audrey!"  More action could have probably taken place, more consequences could have occurred if Cooper fell in love with Audrey, at least imo.  For instance, the Windom Earl case (with sacrificing the Queen to kill the king, the Queen could have been Audrey) and just the whole chain effect with the small town having its own secret problems:

"It would have been more suitably ironic had Earle kidnapped Audrey to the Lodge in the finale for not only Audrey was involved in a case Cooper worked on (like Caroline), but perhaps Cooper finally realised how much Audrey ment to him. Maybe they might have even kissed, or I daresay, consumated their relationship before the Miss Twin Peaks contest. But we'll never know."

"I would have kept Audrey saving Cooper's hide with the blackmail photos, and move her on to getting into the mix of holding the cards with the mill info between Ben and Catherine.  Catherine/Audrey scenes would have been amazing."

~ that's what I meant

"It would give more forshadowing even with Audrey's first meeting with Cooper -"Do you like my ring?" "

~that would've been nice too

On top of that, the killer was revealed, which was the basis of the show, so I believe that ending these two important ideas led to the downfall/quick death of the show. 

"I always saw it more as the post modern fairy tale -and I believe there have been some essays written on it -Audrey as post modern princess in Great Northern castle, Cooper knight in shining armor/black FBI suit etc."

Thank you for that, I couldn't have put it any other way.  I love what Sherilyn Fenn brought to the show through her character, Audrey, especially in the First Season.  She brought, class, glamour, that noir feel, a jazz sensation, fun, innocence and intrigue, alongside MacLachlan's character of a good cop with a dark past...something felt so right about that and I can't put my finger on it.   Then she just suddenly disappeared mid-Second Season.  I didn't like that scene where she comes back from Seattle and Hawk tells her Cooper wants to see her, and she says, "I am busy" something like that.  I feel like her relationship, whether friendship or real affection for Cooper suddenly became of little value.  I hate that Audrey lost her virginity to a guy whose character was underdeveloped.  I mean, Billy Zane was hot, for sure, but I was still caught up with Cooper and Zane randomly pops out of nowhere, then leaves.  I was actually more interested in Dennis/David Duchovny's character...he had a thing for Audrey, so there could have been a love triangle (although that would have been kinda cheesy).  Just because Cooper found a replacement love interest, it didn't mean Audrey needed one too, or vice versa. 

Realistically speaking, I would have to agree with Kyle, it would have been "inappropiate" for an FBI agent to hook up with a High School girl, but in a year or two, Audrey would have been out of High School...I mean, she was 18 anway, she was still old enough to make her own decisions.  She was legally, an adult.  They didn't have to hit it off right away, it could have been a longer build-up of romance, unreturned love, until Cooper finally realized that Audrey was "the woman of his dreams", as Audrey put it in one of the earlier episodes...gosh darn, I'm peeved.  Anyway, that's my little rant, I had more points, but I accidently erased everything I wrote a while ago. 

I agree that Cooper was a knight.  But the knightly code is to gallantly protect all women- not fall for them.

Oh, and Lara Flynn Boyle is a beeyotch. Has that been mentioned yet?

 gurl u straight trippin

seriously, look at how kyle played those first few scenes with audrey. cooper wanted to slam that like a screen door in a tornado. i mean he pulls it together and decides not to have sex with a teenager, but it wasn't a calculated ploy to flirt with her in order to help her as a person.  

"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

Well, duh. Like Cooper says, you're a very attractive girl yadda yadda. Reptile brain + Lolita = male human response. Doesn't make it romance. Flirting is flirting. Cooper realizes she's not old enough to play even a that innocent of a game when she winds up naked in his bed, crying...

Legal or not, that's childish. Pretty easy to resist.

Kyle did not like Sherilyn Fenn, plain and simple.  He did not want to work with her, she was notoriously difficult to work with.  It's too bad, because it would have made the show so much tighter in Season 2.  There wouldn't have been any need for Billy Zane or Heather Graham...

I myself have never heard anything about Sherilyn being difficult to work with... have you, Addison? 

If anything this all comes down to Kyle's ego, and his unfortunate falling out with Lynch, which was also why his part in FWWM had to be rewritten as Chester Desmond and he wouldn't do more than a cameo. Kyle was the bigger man, though and, like Julee Cruise, admitted fault in the professional rift for the world to see and made peace.

Actually, I heard this about Ms. Fenn several times.  Perfect example... she refused to take part in any of the Miss Twin Peaks pagent other than delivering the speech.  She wouldn't dance, dress up or have any part of the stage show.  She admits it herself in recent interviews on the TP Gold DVD.  Meanwhile, every other young actress on the show just sucked it up and did their jobs.

This whole idea that Cooper wouldn't get involved with a teenager was just a convenient excuse.  Audrey could have turned 18 at any time during the show... and even if they never really hooked up they could have still played around with the attraction between them.  They could have continued the whole cat and mouse routine, I thought it was great TV.

As a quick fix to the Audrey/Cooper situation, they then tried to pair her off with Bobby.  But that didn't work either.  So that's why they had to hire Billy Zane, who was arguably one of the worst additions to the cast in the second season. 

I don't know anything about Kyle's ego.  In terms of not wanting to star in FWWM, I think he was completely within his rights to ask not to be so heavily featured.  He could have just said no, and not appeared in the film at all.  He was ready to move on.  

Fair enough. But the Miss TP pageant thing was pretty hokey and dumb, if we're talking about bad Season 2 decisions...

This is from Jerry Horne on dugpa.com:

"Well, there was a lot of personal issues between these people. Kyle and Lara were going out during the series or the early part of the series. Fenn was dating Lynch briefly as well. Fenn has stated that she thought Lara or MacLachlan thought she was falling for Kyle, when in fact, she only wanted the characters of Audrey and Coop to get together in the series. So, it just sounded to me like those three just needed a break from Twin Peaks and each other."

There was other, drama, too. Any kind of on-set love triangles you can imagine were at play and affected the decision in the end. 

i have two things to add: the whole deal about audrey could have been solved by just not having her in high school.  she could easily have been written into the storyline as a 21 year old.  she has what...maybe 3 or 4 scenes in the high school?  what would the excuses have been then? its clear that frost and engels wanted it to happen in the gold box documentaries.  i dont think lynch really cared once he had to reveal the killer.

 i also absolutely loathe the john justice scene when he comes into ben's office and everyone is just so damn happy and laughing their asses off.  i think that was jerry's last scene too..so sad.  one of my least favorite scenes of the series (intro to the pine weasel as well)

I can't say that I know the reason. I would say that I don't believe that Audrey was 18 yet. So right there "we both know this is wrong". And it is quite unprofessional to get romantically involved with a material witness in a case. Cooper was the consummate professional. Though even he did get corrupted. After all, he could have gotten the RCMP to rescue Audrey. Wouldn't have been as good a story, but....

In retrospect I felt that Cooper's resistance to Audrey lent some tension to the story. I think this was a result to witnessing the same in the X-Files between Mulder and Scully. In fact, Twin Peaks may have been an influence here and in some other areas as well.

I haven't read Raymond Chandler's "The Big Sleep", but did however see the film. In the novel, when Carmen Sternwood is trying to get her incriminationg photos back from Marlowe, she breaks into Marlowe's home, while he's away, and gets into his bed, nude. When he returns she of course tries to seduce him. This is nicely paid homage to in Twin Peaks.

I felt that Audrey tried to parlay her ordeal at One-Eyed Jacks and the subsequent rescue by Cooper, into one last attempt to win Cooper over. This when she's recovering in, what was it, the police station? When Ben Horne wants to drive her home and she requests that Cooper drive her home instead. Of course she was extremely mad at Ben. Maybe this was contributing to her ploy.

 Yes, Lynch and Fenn were doing the horizontal hula. 

I can't believe this thread is still going strong.

"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

Audrey was supposed to be 18.  The writers clearly took this approach.  (those TP cards with Birthdates on them and is it 1990 or 1989 be dammned).

And the whole rescue of Audrey from OEJ and the telling to her father that she wants Cooper to take her home is clearly from the writers perception that the Cooper/Audrey relationship is still going strong. There was no "ploy" -just the writers intent that Audrey is past the school girl games and involved in something extremely serious now, that her father is a monster, possible killer; and even her run to Cooper at the station with the info is not to flirt, just the urgency.   Most likely the idea and change in tone happened when they were drafting the script to Leland's wake episode.

Most likely, the fallout happened more over the summer of 1990, after the first season had been filmed and no one knew how the show would be perceived.  Fenn and Boyle are strong willed and speak their minds.  Fenn was getting a lot of attention and an Emmy nomination -the trade ads used Coop/Audrey for most of their promotions- just a hunch this would tick some people off when they are jockeying for position on a hit ensemble show.

Gotta say, I disagree. The tension between them was like the tension in the Laura murder mystery. Def amazing, but you can't sustain it forever.

The platonic love and respect for Audrey's youth and virtue: much more important. Through her OEJ experience, she became older and wiser. Well, maybe. But not enough for Cooper. He needed someone like Annie, who was cautious about love from being hurt, like he was.

Audrey went through exactly nothing before she started trying to impress Cooper. Daddy wasnt attentive, so she acted out by showing up naked in the bed of a guy she just met and getting a job at a whorehouse.

All went as it should have.

And JJW is, well, hot. He is what Audrey idealized Cooper to be: "tall dark handsome stranger... international intrigue" etc.

bah, that's practicality versus dramatic effect.

Sam and Diane, Ross and Rachel, David and Maddy, Scarlet and Rhett, Ilsa and Rick etc, etc, etc should never get together in real life, but in terms of a continued soap you need tension and conflict. 

And in terms of simple marketing, Audrey and Cooper's relationship was the most talked about and fan faves of the show, next to Who Killed Laura Palmer.  (Peyton: "It's what all our mail was about.")

You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

But how long could it have gone on?  I don't think there would be any way for Audrey, who is a mess, to recover and stay a heroine from getting what she wanted from Cooper in her fragile, emotionally stunted state.  Ok, ok. That would be dramatic.  But we would lose all respect for Cooper.  Love and equality would be impossible. Sorry, but Cooper as a hero was far more vital to the show than Cooper as a romantic lead.

Rhett Butler was a gigantic fucker. Cooper was an amazing human being, albeit a shoddy investigator. 

 Incompatibility is interesting in a love story and makes for hot passion, but it has to be specific and complementary. Age/maturity difference, turns into a Lana/Milford brothers burlesque. Cooper had far more experience. He would effectively be preying on her for that reason alone. Icky!

Audrey Horne- I know you have said you created an alternate plotline where they get together. Can you pitch that to us?

well, thats precisely it, you DON'T put them together in a physical sense- but you keep it going narratively that they are still connected.  In a serial, you have to only give an inch, a tease.  Viewers are prickly -they want it and once they get it, they're bored.  Ross and Rachel have to be broken up; viewers tuned out on Moonlighting once Maddy and David got together -so it's a very tricky route.  Sam and Diane get together/break up, rinse and repeat.  It's a gimmick, so the style and writing and chemistry is what saves you.

I have no idea what the intention was during the first season.  Most likely, it was just a homage to Lolita.  Doubtful, writers thought it was a good idea to plan an epic romance with a FBI and a teenager to hang their show on -I mean, how twisted is that?  But probably in the shaping and filming of the first season, the chemistry on screen was working for production. 

but with the airing of the first season (with probable expectation being the Donna/James union being the romantic hook) viewers and critics and magazines took to the Cooper/Audrey scenes, and when going into production for the second season, Frost et all began to fully embrace what they found to be one of their primary public aces -they shapened Cooper's angle with Audrey, "can't think of clues, but on the content of her face," the praying scene, the close-up on Cooper with "Audrey Horne is missing." -all the public marketing and commercials became Cooper/Audrey centric.  it's just simply a good business move.

When Frost says his next big plot was going to be the "consummation" between Cooper and Audrey, this might be a mistake or just a case of misjudging the semantics.  A consummation meaning physical relationship would deadly (I don't care about the age difference because it's a show about style, not practicalities) but because it leads to a deadend.  But a consummation of their connection narratively is fine.  Frost in an interview said Cooper would have become more of a teacher to her -the same interview specualtes that Lynch would have done something with Audrey's strange ethereal powers in relation to Cooper.

in any case, the Wheeler and Annie characters of course are perfect for Audrey and Cooper, respectively -because they were written that way.  Written as a quick fix- and given the core characteristics that prompted the Cooper/Audrey attraction -(Wheeler is forthright, and even looks like Cooper; Annie is quirky introvert)  And makes no sense that we must sit through essentially the same storyline during the same episodes -only because McLachlan and Fenn were still the fan favorites.  Annie and Wheeler are written as instant perfect matches because we're running out of time in the season.  Nothing wrong with the actors, just doing their jobs, but their intent was to still fill the void in the storyline -only problem is they have to take up doulbe the time.

LOL -my treatment was done not a gushing fan, but as semi-detective work as to what would happen without McLachlan/Boyle's interference.  The basic plot still kept Ben/Audrey/Cooper triangle -(a giant blow and loss in the real show); Audrey still freeing Cooper from the drug charges, and basically meddling in helping him with the chess moves; Cooper repeatedly keeping her at bay.  She does enter Miss Twin Peaks to thwart one of Ben's schemes and is abducted -which was most likely Frost's intent by introducing Earle's name in the same monologue of Cooper's "Earle has escaped; all I can think about is Audrey's smile" and the repeated use of Cooper's past in relation to saving Audrey from OEJ; surely in the real series this was pretty obvious foreshadowing.   (you should check it out -I think it turned out well)

thanks for letting me ramble -haven't had a good Cooper/Audrey fix in awhile.

Rhett Butler was a gigantic fucker.

Yes, in the reality of the story; and Scarlet a spoiled brat. 

The best characters have to have flaws; no one wants to watch perfect goody goody Melanie and Ashley.  In real life, it's what we want, in movies, nooooo! 

But this is movieland, heightened romantasized, not real life.  Twin Peaks is about movie homage.  It's overly stylized, not reality.

Audrey is only a teenager in the sense that the image is strong with school books and saddleshoes; but her bathroom scene with Donna is no different than two femme fatals in film noirs' detective office.  It's not presented in a documentation exploration about real teenagers.